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I passed by the yesterday here in Naples. I really can't feel like I belong to this movement.

* I don't like slogans, and the ones I heard were pretty violent, including death threats to right wing people, and far left typical songs.
Anger was the feeling I perceived the most, which may biased because angry people shout the most.

* People knew a lot about climate and environment. That is, until you ask questions. There is no place for doubts in this climate action.

* The traffic was stopped by a human wall. I had to exchange insults and raise my bicycle to get past the fu**ing barricade.

* I do not know how to feel when kids, like 12 yo, engage in such political actions. I still feel like they are too young to really get what's happening.

I'd like to repost a picture that @freemo posted a long while ago

@arteteco @freemo All their behavior is mild compared to what species collapse and mass-famine will be like. Please. Give people the benefit of the doubt. When their lives are threatened, no one is very polite. ❤️ #ClimateCrisis bbc.com/news/science-environme

@BernieOrVest
Well, "not being very polite" is a bit of an euphemism for shouting to put people to death because of a political idea.
Don't get me wrong, if that would prove to actually solve some problems I could at least consider it as a good idea, but as far as I can see it's counterproductive. For example, I do not want to have anything to do with them.

And articles like this are a good example of stuff that people quote to look very well informed, but when you go and ask details and cast the light of doubt (as doubt is not a shadow, really) on the matter you become "one of them".

I'm sure there are beautiful people around that know what they are doing. My experience so far with the environmental movements, in which I've been for years, has been utterly disastrous.

@arteteco Trolls say "I can't vote for Bernie Sanders. I hate his supporters". But that's a bad faith argument.

Bernie is:
#MedicareForAll #EliminateMedicalDebt #CancelStudentLoans #HousingForAll #NoMoreWar #TaxTheRich etc.

✅ Support the policies or not.

Similarly, looming climate catastrophe is based on science.

✅ Believe it or not.

If we think 🌎 will soon be too hot to support human life, angry climate protestors should have nothing to do with action we take to address the problem.❤️

@BernieOrVest I'm not much into US politics, sorry, I may not get all the references.
I'm not denying human caused climate change, the need for action or the importance of changing policies, if that is your point.
I am just sharing my feeling towards the people I met at the strike, and how counterproductive, aggressive and uninformed they seemed to me.

@arteteco Understood, I hear what you're saying. We should all be good examples of the change we want to make. 👍🏾

@arteteco @freemo

By the same token, the people who are polite, educated and don't block traffic are the people who are ignoring the preponderance of the evidence, acting solely in their own interests, and inflicting real harm on future generations. Even if you don't like the protesters - and you don't have to - they are nontheless not wrong.

@Downes

Hi, why do you reckon polite, educated people are all ignoring the evidence or acting in they own interests? Do you need to shout for death of other people to be a "true" right-doer?

To be totally fair, protesters I talked to were also wrong on a number of things, from ecology to waste disposal. That is, when they actually said what they thought, instead of just shouting empty slogans. That again may also be due to the age, many were really young.

To be clear, I've seen you went to the climate strike in your place and I hope people there were nice and more mature.
I didn't want to insult or say that everybody is like that... it is just the overall experience I had here, in this town, with that people.

@Downes

But ther not. The vast majority of people actively tring to address environmental concerns arent really going to have a majority of that group protesting. Most people recycling and reducing their footprint are also just going about their lives and not spending their weekends protesting.

Your statement sounds good but I wouldnt say lines up with reality.

@arteteco

@freemo @arteteco Simply recycling and reducing your footprint won't be nearly enough.

We have to transform the power grid, transportation network and agriculture to zero-emission status. That will take a major effort from government and industry, one they have shown no interest in undertaking.

The people doing nothing but recycling and reducing their footprint, and who are not asking more from government, are part of the problem.

@Downes @freemo @arteteco Government cannot achieve any of those things by itself, unless it turns into a dictatorship(for most countries even that won't work), and industry is not in any way a singular entity, everyone is part of it(as producers, consumers, marketers etc). At this point what people should be doing is raising awareness and serving as examples, each in their own capacity. These "strikes", in many parts of the world, don't seem to be doing either.

@namark @freemo @arteteco

If you don't believe the protests are of value, then I am not going to convince you in a Mastodon discussion, and won't engage further in such an attempt.

I will say that the efforts of people to date have been a failure. We are still increasing emissions. We are still on track to extreme climate change.

I don't care whether or not you like the protesters. The protesters aren't the issue. Our global failure to fix this problem is the issue.

Ah, the classic "If you don't know, then you don't deserve to know, and I certainly won't waste my precious time explaining (even though that's what I was trying to do in the first place). Now let me divert the conversation, by repeating some tangentially related vague truths."
Nice one there @Downes, really helping the cause...

@Downes

By the way I never claimed the protests didnt have value myself. Only that the result of the action of non-protesters that are eco-conscious in their choices have a far greater positive effect than the protesters have.

@namark @arteteco

@Downes

I agree, these people are also the ones voting for the politicians too and being sure to vote for the ones who are going to make the governmental changes you suggest. They also tend to spend more on electricity and other bills to opt-in on greener choices and to support the development of those resources with their money.

I'd say that's still as much or more than the protesters tend to accomplish. Plus there are just more of them overall.

@arteteco

@Downes
Do you really think there is such a neat line between "part of the problem" and "part of the solution"?
Everyone is part of the problem, actually I don't think there is, a line, it's a matter of grade.

And, I probably didn't manage to mark my point here, I am not saying protesting does not have an impact, I was saying that what I saw was counterproductive, irritating, and badly done. You want to move masses? You don't sing for shooting other people, or make death threats. I simply can't walk along those people. And all the points I touched still stand.

Even here, I won't be sure as you are on considering protesting "the only way", this being a very complex matter on every level, and solutions are not that obvious, IMHO

@freemo

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