@extrn@qoto.org These seem like pretty vague and ambiguous "traits" that could ulteriorly be applied to many states irrespective of political and/or economic/socioeconomic organization. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert you can start educating yoursef here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

@extrn@qoto.org You do realize that entire page speaks about how ethereal the concept of "fascism" itself is, with many different groups having many different definitions---it's anything but concrete or objective. The article even begins with a quote from a historian saying:

trying to define 'fascism' is like trying to nail jelly to the wall

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I've read the page some time ago, when I was interested in it. So, in your oppinion because there are many definitions of something means that something does not exist? Fine. Replace fascism with a long list of verifiable wrongs and crimes ruZZia has done... I already said I don't care for labels. The labes are just shortcuts.

@extrn@qoto.org Okay, excellent, so you finally answered my core question originally:

If Russia wasn't "fascist", would that change your opinion of things?

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I don't understand what it means ruZZia not being fascist. RuZZia has killed innocent civilians in Ukraine, has bombed shelters, schools, kindergardens and hospitals. Has destroyed civil infrastructure, has deported children from the occupied territories, has killed and raped and tortured prisoners. Has burned Ukrainian textbooks and has prosecuted ukrainian teachers. Has turned on its own citizen, sending them into prison for long time for even a minor critique of the war (which they officially refuse to call "war")... The ruZZian big bussiness is divided by several oligarchs - friends of tzar putler... In my oppinion all this is evil motivated by personal greed and vanity of the tzar... By his dreams of a great empire full of serfs... So I don't understand the question. What is supposed to not be true?

@extrn@qoto.org I asked, regardless of your hangup on "fascism", if this was being done by any other country than Russia (or, if Russia wasn't "fascist", as you claim [whatever that means, it does not matter]), would you feel so similarly? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I haven't even started yet with all the ruZZian crimes of the last 50 years. The most awful crime IMNSHO is the disregard of the individual. Treating their own people like meat that exists only for the sake of advancing the goals of the tzar. This absolutist mentality was erradicated in the west a long time ago. So I can see North Korea or China very well in this role. US had done some pretty outrageous things in Latin America and the Middle East. Britain in the past too. But you are not going to turn full ruZZian troll here asking: "And what about..."? Right? That's not an afgument at all. putler has destroyed the European security architecture existing since the ww2 and I, as an European and a citizen of a country, that's a victim of the ruZZian imperialism will not play with hypotheticals in my ivory tower while there is an acive ruZZian plot to destabilize my own country and enslave me and my family. Fuck ruZZia, fuck putler, prigozin and the whole Kremlin. Let tgem burn!

@extrn@qoto.org So, this all really just comes down to the fact that you hate Russia/Russians and are a Eurocentric chauvinist? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert not at all. I would feel the same about any country killing people that want to be free. It just so happens that I have a particulary long history with ruZZia an md ruZZian lies

@extrn@qoto.org What do you think should be done to a country like Russia for what they're doing? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Nothing *should* be done to a country. The tzar will fall off a window when they lose the war. There will be a brief struggle between the oligarchs (because in their authoritarian government there are no rules of succession) and then a fission process will occur, splitting Chechnia and other parst of ruZZia. It is possible China to take Siberia. So what they deserve will happen all by itself. What should be done is just one thing - help them lose the war

@extrn@qoto.org When do you imagine all of this will happen? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert It depends on the western support for Ukraine. The west has been very shy in that support. It is telling when you review the support by % of GDP: the former eastern bloc leads: All small countries that know what to expect from the empire. Meanwhile the likes of Macron and Sholtz are playing politics an "talking on the phone" and "keeping the channels open". Clowns. US has their own reasons for their support - they already carried the burden of one cold war - perhaps they don't want another.

@extrn@qoto.org I wouldn't exactly call the support "shy"---the United States has spent more on Ukraine in a year than they did over a decade in their war against Afghanistan. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert USA still refuse to provide more effective weapons like ATACMS. Ukraine needs also abilities to hit deep inside ruZZian territory: to destroy airstrips for strategic bombers and training centers.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't want America to provide more money and weapons to Ukraine. I'm already upset that America has spent the amount of tax dollars on some corrupt Eastern European rotating-puppet-state that they have. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert And what state that will be? And if you don't do it now, eventually you'll have to do it - just like in WW2. And it will be much more expensive. I think the american administration understands this very well, but they move slowly because of politics - both internal and international.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't think we will have to do anything at all. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Not helping Ukraine means ruZZia taking it. Then Moldova. Increasing their influence. Getting cocky. Starting shit in US (Trump). It is vastly more expensive than just proving them wrong right in the spot of their first transgression. (not that it's their first - they already escalated from human rights issues in the 2000s to the war with Georgia, to the poisonings on western soil, to annexations of Crimea and starting shit in Donbas, to elections interference in US and otger countries...). Much cheaper to kill 500000 orcs and be done with it.

@extrn@qoto.org We aren't taking anything. Pretty racist of you to refer to Slavic people's as "orcs". You're clearly a typical European supremacist. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I do not refer to slavic people as orcs. I'm slavic people... :) ruZZian rapists in Ukraine are orcs. Ask anyone ghat cares. .

@extrn @adiz @don From my perspective as a Marxist this whole war is a huge tragedy that didn't need to happen if the USSR's regime had not been revisionist Stalinists who decided to undemocratically dissolve itself to allow its bureaucracy to profit off of privatization. The Ukraine War is the result of capitalist imperialism of NATO / the West seeking to assimilate Russia and then China into its territory and control to protect itself against collapse.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don So NATO started the war... Diesn't strike me as something a sane person would say....

@extrn@qoto.org Gee, I don't know, it's not like there was a CIA sponsored coup that toppled the pro-Russian government in 2014 and installed a radically pro-Western regime which purged the officer corps, immediately began antagonisms on the Eastern borders, and destroyed decades of Ukrainian-Russian cooperation or anything. @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @don @rbe_expert dou you have any evidence? Because of experience I can tell you it is far more likely the educated Ukrainians living in big cities envisioned themselves as part of Europe with freedom to go wherever they like, work whatever they want and live their lives as they please, than deciding to join an authoritarian pigsty.

@extrn @adiz @don So they needed to foment unrest in the streets of Kiev and coup the government. That was their solution to that.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don who are "they"? And solution to what? And do yoj have any evidence? Because I can tell you - nobody needs to foment anything with me - the moment the orcs try to take my freedom they'll die

@extrn @adiz @don These "educated Ukrainians living in big cities" that you speak of

@rbe_expert @adiz @don these are people that do not want to have their lifes stollen by a dictatorship. I tell you - no sane person who lived in eastern Europe will ever want to join ruZZian sphere of influence.

@extrn @adiz @don The old Ukrainian regime was at least as democratic as the new Ukrainian regime, which bans worker strikes and leftist opposition parties.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don old regime was also fond of snipers killing protesters as far as I remember. I also remember poisoning politicians... And if you want to see what Ukraine would have been now, look no further than Belarus. I don't know why you are so drawn to dictators. Why don't you go to live there? It is easy recommending "workers" do it, why don't you give an example? You are too comfortable enjoying the freedom of the west, while talking shit about it... I believe Popper concluded you should not be given that opportunity... So just go ti ruZZia or Noth Korea to educate tha "workers" 🤡🤡🤡

@extrn @adiz @don Evidence of snipers?

@rbe_expert @adiz @don dead bodies

@extrn@qoto.org Evidence of dead bodies? @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @don @rbe_expert so you lost the ability to google?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties

@extrn@qoto.org No, you're just being cheeky about this stuff when arguments are made to you. So, I can do the same! @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert is there any evidence marxism can exist IRL?