@slackz
Thats fair, though I'd say you have just as many political horrors to worry about in the UK as you do from trump. Both the US and the UK are burning to the ground as far as I'm concerned.

But here in the netherlands there is a pretty big movement to leave the EU as well, and based ont he recent election a week ago that movement is gaining momentum even more than it had been.

To me leaving th eEU and replacing it with a trade union (as it was originally intended) makes a hell of a lot of sense. The last thing we need is europe to follow int he tracks of the USA and create ever larger governments that overrule the laws and decisions of its constituent countries.

The issue isnt so much brexit itself because in isolation it is the smart move. The issue is that the UK government is not (and hasnt been for a long time) competent enough to execute on it.

@dch

@slackz @dch @freemo Brexit was only superficially about nationalism. Mainly it was about the deep and unresolved class divisions specifically within England. Very little actually to do with the EU. Mostly it was about wanting to fuck over the Westminster politicians who had been fucking over the working class for decades. It was an act of defiance against the arrogance of Cameron assuming that everyone would follow government instructions and vote to remain.

@bob
I'm nto sure I agree on that. Of the hundreds of people I've spoken to who voted one way or another not a single person voiced any opinion that would reflect your suggested motivation.

@dch @slackz

@bob

Thanks. I need to do more reading about the subject. I only recall seeing interviews with racist Brits fear-mongering about refugees (but clearly this is a very limited view).

Currently reading more about the border situation in Ireland. If you have any good long reads on the subject, plz feel free to send a link.

Thanks for your insights

@freemo also, back to brexit, please read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/30/opinion/sunday/northern-ireland-brexit.html

This is the context I'm considering when I oppose Brexit specifically (not all theoretical EU exits more generally). This could clearly have disastrous consequences with respect to the border situation and voters / politicians ignored that when edging through Leave.

Yeah, kinda like a politically contentious, complicated, far-reaching agreement like this shouldn't be done this way. Article 50 must be revoked

@dch

@paulfree14
While I respect all of your opinions (even though I only agree with some of these points and with conditions)...

None of that actually answered the question. How would you resolve the border issue while executing brexit.

@slackz @dch

@freemo
I do not accept the status quo.
I do not accept the process that lead to brexit.
I want a society that is organized fundamentaly different then it is today.
I will not strive for anything less then that.

In term of practicality, I suggest for mass disobidience.

@slackz @dch

@paulfree14
Thats fair, but for better or worse it is not in line with what the majority of people want. Ultimately we, and any nation, must work within those constraints. That means that even if we dont agree with brexit or the status quo those decisions have already been made, at this point the real question is how do we execute on those decisions in the most beneficial way for everyone.

I'm not opposed to a revote by the way, but until such a revote is conducted and there is evidence to suggest the results would be any different, then this is the course we are on. So it is within these restraints where solutions would be executable and productive.

@slackz @dch