@jasper Yea, they did, abut 50% of them. Which I'd say is reflected by the top half of the image almost perfectly. :)

@freemo shouldn't the red bar be smaller and more to the right, then. Like, you know, actually, the right actually is extremist.

Of course, when you ask republicans, a lot of them are much more left wing than their media & politicians imply. The 2=1 political system are in effect there to suit capitalists, which have a right wing bent.

Like, maybe, when people get angry they get even more defensive of their private property and stoke reactionaries.

@jasper Well i guess it depends on how you want to visualize it. The point of the top bar is that the right in America is extremist and crazy and the left in America is extremist and crazy and there is little in between.

Thats why both halves are bright blue and bright red rather than a shade in between. To show the majority are extremists on both sides.

But yes I agree both sides in America are almost entirely comprised of extremists, certainly a majority. Trump is a prime example of that.

@freemo no you don't agree, that is clear from what i wrote.

And i don't think the left is extreme. They infact should be more extreme because that is the correct position, and the republicans can't be compromised with anyway.

@jasper Wait I dont? What did I say to you to suggest I dont think trump is a representation of extremism. My whole post was based on that.

But yea apparently we do disagree about the left in america then. I dunno, last president they had started killing off US citizens without due process, did nothing to stop the CIA spying on its own citizens and continued to perpetuate wars around the glob. Trump may be just as bad, but pretty hard to deny the extremism from either side in America.

@freemo Trump put a full page ad calling for the death sentence for the "central park five" who were innocent, of course.

He flagrantly ignores the emoluation clause of the constitution.

He encouraged violence at protesters at his rallies.

He attacked a judge for being mexican.

He threatened witnesses relating to Muellers investigation.

His wife purposefully put on that shirt "i don't care", wore an identical dress as a nazi in an Indiana Jones movie in Egypt.

@jasper Ok, well since we already agreed some time ago that trump is also an extremist, and since we agree with all those points, not sure the relevance.

I'm not sure why you think arguing about Trump being an extremist, on which we agree, somehow acts as evidence that the american-left isnt extremist. Thats not how it works, thats not how any of this works.

@freemo he put Jeff Sessions in the justice department, who failed to be nominated to the district court for being racist.

He pardonned that guy with a tent-camp prison, who bragged it was a concentration camp.

Despite being alledgedly anti-war, he got hawkish people in positions of war. Including a general at the defense ministry, where it is usually a civilian.

Again despite that, 50G$ more for military and pushing for NATO to 2% and then even 4%, despite US army ALONE being adequate.

@jasper Ok... So you've made three posts now where you continue to agree with me (that Trump is an extremist)... yet the one point you made that you disagreed on you've done nothing to address in any way.

Yes trump is an extremist, just like the left is in america, and the right in america. That was the point of the original post.

It is curious though that your spending all this time reiterating the points I agree on, obviously, rather than doing anything to address the point we disagree on. But I guess thats better than I'm used to seeing.

@freemo and then there is the hatemongering against immigrants. Obama might have been "deporter in chief", but it was nowhere this bad.

Nowhere near the same extent, this is a fender bender versus a train wreck. Obama did a lot wrong, but Trump is creating an atmosphere where him, or the next guy could do anything.

Seriously name one fucking thing that Obama did that is of this fucking nature.

Fucking capitalists sucking and controlling shit does not equal all presidents are the same.

@jasper Ohhh cursing now, keep it mature man.

I never claimed Obama was **as** bad as trump. He wasnt. While he was pretty horrific, and a clear example of extremism (as i pointed out examples of earlier), he isnt as bad as trump. But I'm sure whoever the democrats elect next will be.

Thats how it goes, every election the other side gets more radical and more extreme. Trump is more extremist than Obama, and the democrat ticket next go will be more extremist than Trump. Just how the cycle goes.

But I dunno, murdering a US citizen without a warrant, due process, or even the opportunity at a trial, and then repeating that.. thats pretty damn high on the list of atrocities, not something I'd call a fender bender. So he was an extremist despite what trump may be.

@freemo "I never claimed Obama was **as** bad as trump. He wasnt." ... no you just implied it.

How is "murdering citizens" a left wing point. It is just "extremism" in the same way interventionalism is extremist. In the *same* direction as Bush, not a reaction to it.

If he had reacted to it, he'd have *promptly* ended the wars, not done drone strikes. Not have Citigroup executive Michael Froman have the list of his cabinet.

He'd have reacted to the financial crisis by breaking up banks.

@freemo he'd not have done ACA in a way throwing a bone to insurance companies for _no_ return and done some kind of medicare for all, cutting out the middleman.

Like this shit exists in other countries, it's not like it wasn't known about as impossible.

It's no fucking left wing reaction AT ALL. You're STILL saying left and right are the same. Capital benefits from the right wing view point.

Shitlibs deserve Trump for not actually caring about material conditions of the working class.

@jasper Never once said the left and the right were the same. Left and Right ideals are very different aroudn the world and the both ideals have some merrit depending on what we happen to be talking about. But no they arent the same and in many things the left got stuff correct.

What I **did** say is that the american-left and the american-right are both extremists. Not extremists in how far left or how far right they go. Extremists int heir call to violence and hyperbole in everything they do. Their dogmatic stance when dealing with issues rather than being mature and making progress.

@jasper I should also point out that while Obama did have good intentions he entierly screwed up healthcare in america, though it was mostly out of incompetance.

I was living in America at the time and thankfully had great affordable healthcare before the ACA. Afterwards however aside from just prices skyrocketing it changed the whole way doctors did medicine. Ultimately care took a nose dive which is why I came back to live in the NEtherlands when I did, to get sane healthcare again.

So just saying ACA isnt the best example even if you like socialized healthcare.

@jasper No any implication you read was your own assumptions overwhelming your rationality.

While I did claim the leftists in America (the populus) was as bad as the right, and they are. I said absolutely NOTHING about where Obama fell on the level of extremism compared to Trump until my last quote.

But here is what odd, instead of assuming what I said and then throw a fit when I tell you **explicitly** what I believe as if somehow I'm lying to you about what i believe when I tell you directly but then go and give you some mysterious hints about what I truly believe... how about when I tell you I think Obama isnt as much of an extremist as Trump you accept that reality.

Stop trying to start drama and tell people what they think and step back and have a **mature** conversation instead.

@freemo can also look at who has really been doing the terrorism in the US.

I.e. police brutality, school shootings, all very left wing stuff, i am sure.

@jasper Well depends ont he violence. There is left and right violence (thus why both are extremists)...

Right violence: school shootings, police brutality, sure

left violence: beating up old couples wearing manga hats, throwing explosives at trump supports, physically vandalizing equipment at talks and debates

All the examples above from both sides are things I've personally been witness to In the USA, many you can even find on youtube.

Yup no shortage of violence from the left, just as there is no shortage of violence from the right.

@freemo Trump does all this shit. Is more extremist. It is extensively covered in the news. People vote for it anyway, what does it say about them..

@jasper It says that they are extremists who are responding to abusive treatment by other extremists by behaving even more extremist than they were before. The left also responded by doing the same.

As I said, next democrat president will be even more extreme than trump, the cycle just continues.

@freemo what abusive treatment?

@jasper The examples I listed earlier. I will reiterated.

I have personally witnessed the following abusive treatment fromt he left towards the right while in america (I have seen just as bad from the right mind you):

1) I witnessed leftists physically assault an old couple explicitly because the old man was wearing a MAGA hat.

2) I've seen leftists throwing explosives (fireworks) at trump supporters

3) I've seen people get physically violent on at least a dozen occasions for not showing support for leftist ideals (many of them did not support the right either).

Really countless examples I've witnessed.

The truth is you simply cant be a lefty or a righty in america without being abused by the opposite side both physically and verbally.

@jasper Again have you ever spent any extended time in america? I have, and I've seen some pretty horrific violence from the left at protests on multiple occasions too. I've seen how they behave first hand.

Dont get me wrong I've seen disgusting stuff out of the right too, just as bad without a doubt. But to spend any time around Americans it becomes clear very quickly that the left got Trump because they deserve him as much as the right does.

@jasper By the way have you ever actually spent any time in America. They are FAR more extreme than dutch liberals in terms of violence, lack of tolerance, acceptance of injustice within their own party, etc. I live int he netherlands as I assume you do, and we arent even APPROACHING the level of extremism you see from the left or the right in america.

@freemo That should be:
I think the first is limited to political activists.

@jhertzli I wish that were true :(