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Why is it so hard to get a good Role-model for climate change activism.
I used to be fairky active about climate change but now that Greta came along I had to distance myself from most organizations as many seem to praise or support her. It is such a shame we cant have role models in climate change we can look up to.
#climatechange #climate #science #enviroment #greta #gretathurnberg
@freemo I'm not particularly fond of Greta because I get the impression she feels she's more important than she is, but at least it's bringing climate issues into the public consciousness more
@alex_ I dont think she has brought climate change into the public conscious. At best she has given people who were already activists someone to talk about.
In general I think she has done more harm than good and pushed many of us out of the community.
I think it's pretty simple. Whatever science there is to support man made climate change, the movement has been weaponized for political purposes and power resulting in an infestation of grifters and authoritarians hoping to use it to give themselves moral superiority and shut up any opposition.
"It's for the children" after all..
@AtlasFreeman I mean there is little doubt climate change is real and very serious. To deny that would be on par with being a flat earther cnsidering how obvious this reality is.
With that said there is no doubt it is weaponized when it should be an unquestionable reality at this point.
I don't think planetary scale events can be an obvious reality for everyone. For majority of people such knowledge will need to be based entirely on trust and belief in others, and moving things from the field of science into politics makes it that much more confusing. It is actually a sign that the scientist have failed(so far) to do their job here, at least the social part of it.
@freemo why would it be a bad thing to support Greta? It's youth taking on initiative towards improvement of the world, and a great example for everyone who deems themselves too small to do anything.
@chaos_hydra The most notable issue is her anti-education stance. She promotes kids play hookie from school in order to bring about climate change without a very clear set of objectives or demands to even bring it about.
The equivalent to this would be an educator starting a movement that said "We need to dump toxic waste in a river every friday to bring awareness to education". It is destructive to one cause in a vain attempt to bolster another.
More importantly though is that it is self-destructive to the climate activism in the first place. Climate change denial is rooted in people being uneducated, not being critical thinkers able to reason and understand the situation. So the very movement she is creating in the long run will perpetuate the problem rather than fix it.
@freemo that makes a whole lot of sense. Didn't really know the climate strikes were _in schools_, despite hearing a lot about it. Thanks for enlightening me.
@chaos_hydra Happy to help, yea its concerning
@freemo
I am intrigued a bit. Why you want to distance yourself because of Greta?
I personally feel her involvement made the issue focal point of many news outlets. And it got the attention it deserved and needed.
@shibaprasad The news outlets were already quite vocal about climate change. Greta did little to nothing to increase that awareness. She acts as a focal point for people who were already active in climate change. She did not however do anything productive WRT bringing people to the table who were otherwise indifferent about the issue, if anything she has driven those people to the opposite end of the spectrum.
As I said in my other reply:
The most notable issue is her anti-education stance. She promotes kids play hookie from school in order to bring about climate change without a very clear set of objectives or demands to even bring it about.
The equivalent to this would be an educator starting a movement that said "We need to dump toxic waste in a river every friday to bring awareness to education". It is destructive to one cause in a vain attempt to bolster another.
More importantly though is that it is self-destructive to the climate activism in the first place. Climate change denial is rooted in people being uneducated, not being critical thinkers able to reason and understand the situation. So the very movement she is creating in the long run will perpetuate the problem rather than fix it.
@shibaprasad I agree, but the media attention on climate change is not what is important here. The media attention on a kid striking and causing kids all over the globe to strike because governments refuse to act on climate change Is important. They are striking, just like any union member strikes, to stop injustice and cause action. They are fighting for their future and they are honourable people with passion and willpower.
@freemo I think you are being too logical :) yes kids need education
Comparing them playing hookie to a strike is not a good comparison IMO for several important reasons.
1) they dont have clear terms they are striking for, so its not really a strike or demand but a perpetual temper tantrum (a justified one mind you)
2) more importantly, a Strike shows your commitment to a cause because you are giving up something and making a sacrifice by striking. PEople who strike sacrifice a pay check and devote the time and energy to stand outside with signs all day when sacrificing that income.
In the case of kids playing hooky from school that is what they **want** to do, every kid (almost) looks for any opportunity they can to get a day off school, to them having a day off is not a punishment but a reward. There is no sense of sacrifice, they are taking something they want (skipping school) and parading it around as a strike.
Nothing about it is a strike, and it is not really at all comparable to what a union does. Striking from work is not the same as striking from education.
Now if these kids were striking from recess, or if they went on a hunger strike every lunch period and instead of going to lunch stood outside with protest signs, **then** id be compelled to agree with you.
@freemo the drawback with striking from lunch or play time is that it’s not public, it’s easy to sweep under the carpet. There is no reaction when it is hidden away out of sight, although I tend to agree if they made personal sacrifice it would be even more honorable. Kids don’t really have much worth sacrificing though and their commitment to the cause (playing hookie) is a catalyst if not only for their own perpetual involvement, but for others to see and learn.
How would a hunger strike, recess strike, or another form of strike any less public than a school strike. How public something is comes down to if/how it is announced. I dont see how one is intrinsicly any more hidden than the other.
There are a ton of ways to strike and get publicity and a ton of things kids have to sacrafice. I have no doubt if kids en masse spent their weekends for example gathering and protesting it too would get attention. More so in fact because it would show sacrafice and commitment to a cause. I'm amazed some kids playing hookie got attention at all.
@freemo ok agreed, if kids want to strike they should do it in the weekend. That’s a reasonable compromise. I think you’ve just won me over
@shibaprasad
If they were doing that I'd be the first to praise them and spread the word of what they are doing.
@freemo kids are surely entitled to observe the butterfly effect of their actions, they haven’t perfected reason yet. But they feel something overwhelming like “oh fuck I just realized everyone is destroying the earth, what can I do?” Then they play, explore, try some things. If it was my kid I would be so proud.
Their intent is not what i am criticising, it is how they are going about it. If it were my kid I'd tell them I am proud for wanting to fix the problem, but they are going about it in a wrong and shameful way, harmful to themselves and others without seeing the big picture.
I would encourage them to continue to protest and to be an activist, but to be mindful that their actions and words dont do more harm than good.
More importantly, as an adult, particularly if i were in control of a media outlet. I would refuse to promote or give screen time to the kids, like greta, who are being harmful to the cause and instead give the screen time to the kids who are making real sacrifice and accomplishing good towards the cause. This in turn would encourage kids to take the right sorts of actions to bring about change.
@freemo
Greta is fabricated and will probably get close to offing herself once her 15 minutes of cringe are over. Every sane person can see that. It is the pattern of child celebrities.
As for someone to look up to, there is always some political message behind it that scares off people. I think people can get behind the notion of polluting the environment not at all. Less so by nationalising every company or service into one large government.
I think that in order to be passionate about something to the point it becomes expeditionary, you must have some kind of fanaticism that is detrimental to your goal. Since environmentalism is kidnapped by every definition of the (far) left, you'll see their policies proposals come in the wake of their message. Just like the people who clean up spills from reactors or help out after flooding, their nationalism is usually borderline racist.
(Enough rambling for today)
