@josemanuel One of the best epic stories around. Has all the hallmarks of a story as good as LOTR or any of the great fantasy cycles.

@freemo I don’t know. The story of Siegfried, for example, seems to be a competition on which character is the dumbest.

Siegfried bathes in the blood of the dragon to become invulnerable (then why was the dragon vulnerable? But ok) and leaves a spot where a leaf rests on his upper back.

That’s fine. He didn’t notice it and then some freak accident will happen, right? No! He does notice, he even tells his wife about it. (Why would you do that? Why does she need to know?)

And what about Kriemhild? “Kriemhild, I’ll tell you this secret between me and your brother, but please keep it to yourself. Specifically don’t tell Brunhild, because that would piss her off big time.” What does she do right after that? Brag to Brunhild about it, of course.

And what about: “Hey, Kriemhild. Can you tell me where your husband’s weak spot is? It’s, huh, to protect him.” (Did Siegfried go around telling everybody he was vulnerable, or what? “I have a weak spot, but of course I’m not going to tell you where it is. I’m not an idiot. I’ll just tell my wife, the one they call Bigmouth.”) “Sure, I’ll mark it for you.”

“Oh my god! They killed my husband! How could this possibly happen? I swear I’ll take my revenge even though I’m dumber than a brick and more useless!”

And don’t get me started on Gunther, the man with no personality whatsoever.

@josemanuel Are you sure you havent confused the ring cycle with the earlier work on which it was closely based (in part) titled Nibelungenlied?

Nibelungenlied (poem from the 1200) has many of the same events revolving around siegfried and includes a scene where he bathes in dragon blood. The ring cycle itself, as i recall, leaves that out.

That said the scene in the ring cycle is remarkably similar where he still consumes some of the blood accidentally and is imparted with powers.

@freemo I probably did, which i why I mentioned Fritz Lang, so you knew where I was coming from in case I got something mixed up.

@josemanuel The thing is the 1200 CE version shouldnt be taken at face value, nor should reading anything that is that old. There is generally all sorts of implied symbolism or references a modern reader will miss. So something that may appear stupid and not well thought out is actually quite brilliant and once you dig a bit deeper.

@freemo True, but think of even older stories, like the Epic of Gilgamesh, The Aeneid, The Illiad or The Tale of Genji. They’re much deeper and better, both the characters and the themes depicted.

BTW, I’ve checked the Nibelungenlied on Wikipedia and it seems that most of the stupidity of the characters is the movies’ doing. They’re not geniuses in the original, either, but at least it wouldn’t have suspended my disbelief. (Well, except for the “I will tell you my husband’s weakness so you can protect him” part. That’s still incredibly dumb.)

Oh, and about the symbolisms you mentioned, I just learned something interesting about Siegfried’s death: It is especially offensive to Kriemhild because «throwing a javelin is the manner in which one might slaughter a wild beast, not a knight.»

@josemanuel
The lack of apparent depth of carious periods is a bit deceiving too..i mean we have this idea that everything old must be epic and serious and grand... Truth is a lot of midevil writing is littered with childish things like fart jokes and chastity belts (never existed just a very old and long running joke).

The old epics arent without their own sort of silliness but just as it is often lost on readers.

For example people who read midevil texts often take chastity belts to be a real and literal thing, the fact that it was middle-age slapstick comedy in written form is lost on readers and they figured such belts existed.

The farther you go back the less obvious the intended joke is and the more likely you are to take it seriously and in the process be naive to rhe childish humor. Even the translator may have missed it and left it out of the context entierly.

@pthenq1 It would need to be 4 seperate movies, each one about 3 hours each, the extended versions 4 hours each :)