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#capitalism is not...
* ... large corporations
* ... greed
* ... the rich taking advantage of the poor
* ...unfair labor wages
capitalism is...
*... fair market prices determined by value
*... markets that are not and can not be manipulated
*... fair wages for fair work based on the value contributed
*... poor people having equal chance as rich to market their skills
*.... a free market, a fair market.
@freemo capitalism is the private ownership of capital, inevitably creating systems of exploitation and death as profit motive for the private owners of society's means of production outstrip all other human concerns.
@vulgate No as covered already that is not the definition of capitalism, it is only part of it. Capitalism defines both the private ownership of wealth as well as the private control of the trade (as in the people engaging in trade are free to make their own terms)
In and of itself it neither leads to corruption or greed, or even exploitation. In fact, should you have exploitation then by definition it ceases to be a capitalism since that would mean the markets are no longer free.
There are plenty of perverse incentives that lead to exploitation and corrupting, but none of this is inherent to capitalism and are in fact counter to capitalism.
Ther eis no shortage of exploitation in communism either as we have seen from past governments that are built around this concept.
The fact is people are shitty and no matter what form of government you have people will exploit it and when they do it ceases to be a government built on the ideals of those principles. We need to stop blaming the principles that in their own regard are good in moderation and start realizing people are just shit and will take advantage any time they have power.
I disagree. In america **most** people take advantage. It is just that most of them really want to appear like good people, even to themselves, so they either only do so when they wont get caught, or come up with crazy justifications why what they did is perfectly ok... Very very few people in the USA I have known have turned out to be good people when no one is watching in the long run.
There are a lot of folks who are good, you just don't hear about it because the news, and the rumor mills focus on the bad folks.
Plus I didn't say that they innately are altruistic, I said that most do not take advantage -- whether that's because they don't want to hurt others or it's because they don't want to go to hell, or they don't want to face public ridicule, or for whatever reason. This is why culture, religion, informal norms, etc. are so important. They influence how people act and whether or not they will take advantage or do bad things.
I don't think that the economic system really effects that so much.
I will say this outside of the USA there is a much larger portion of decent people. English speaking non-USA countries tend to still have a lot of ick to it but its miles ahead of the USA in terms of decent people... Though I do find central europe to be some of the best people around in terms of being ethically mindful, not that the rest of europe is that far behind.
Stressors can also have a big effect, just like overall culture/religion, etc. When freedom is limited or when resources and wealth are tight, then people will become less benevolent. Like rats put into a small cage or given less food.
This is where the economic system can have an indirect effect on whether people are are good or bad. If the system is better at producing more wealth, like capitalism, and that wealth is not concentrated, then there is less stress on the system and people act better.
And of course there are competitive global forces at work too.
This is very true. Though the immorality of the americans isnt about tight resources or lack of wealth, there is more than enough of that going around (though there are issues with it like any nation).
The mental health issues are more about lack of health care that covers mental health, taboos around mental health, and how people are raised. It is a cultural thing mostly accelerated by bad policies in healthcare that prevent access to therapy, which is already far enough behind the curve simply due to the negative image associated with it.
Agree. Although we're in the middle of a pandemic, so the times are atypical. But even before, there seemed to be a lot of people with issues.
Anecdotally, I'd have to agree about central Europe, if you mean like Liechtenstein, Austria, Switzerland, etc. But that's just anecdotes. I'd like to see the results of a global lost-wallet study, to see exactly how good folks really are among the various regions.
@freemo @roboneko @vulgate
>people are just shit and will take advantage any time they have power.
*Some* people take advantage, most don't. The number of people who DO take advantage and do bad things is largely effected by factors outside of the economic system, like the overall cultural or religious values that ultimately effect how people will participate in the system -- i.e., whether they do good or evil.