🇳🇱
@freemo unions for the win
@realcaseyrollins while i normally have no problem with unions (assuming they are voluntary).. in the case of police i dont think they should have a right to unionize
@freemo @realcaseyrollins Agreed. Taxpayers are the customers and the employers. We *are* the police union. Any union they form separately is in direct opposition to the general public they're meant to serve.
I wouldnt say thats the reason.. I mean im ok with govt employees like a mailman having a union.
I just dont think people who have qualified immunity should have access to unions that can protect them from proper scrutiny and disciplin.
@freemo @realcaseyrollins Uh, I don't want mailmen to have a union. Then my mailman can just start burning my mail and the union will protect him from being fired.
@LouisIngenthron @freemo The pro union talking point would be that then they can't fight for better pay and work accommodations (I'm not pro union btw, just sayin)
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
I dont see how you can be antiunion and proconstitution... you are saying people cant talk and coordinate amongst eachother? I mean even blocking police unions is muddy water in my head
@freemo @LouisIngenthron Hmm? That same argument could be made about gangs...
"I dont see how you can be antigangs and proconstitution... you are saying people cant talk and coordinate amongst eachother?"
I mean as long as those gangs arent doing anythi g legal, yea, a "gang" has every right to exist and is perfectly protected by the law.
In reality gangs imply illegal acts though so...
@freemo @LouisIngenthron My point being that organizations are not inherently owed the ability to exist just because the members talk to each other
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
What are you making illegsl thrn.. people can unionize without the union formally existing, as long as everyone cooperates
@freemo @LouisIngenthron Ah allow me to rephrase; companies and organizations should be allowed to bust up unions (companies should be allowed to have unions if they want them though)
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
So how are they allowed to bust up unions.. if someone company suspects you and bill talked to eachother and told eachother each of your salaries, sk now the lower paid of you can gondemand a raise... can thry say those twonpeople just unionized and fire them both? When does it count as a union?
@freemo @LouisIngenthron hmm this is a good question, and I don't have the answer.
On the other hand, are you good? I'm noticing an unusual amount of typos from you in this thread
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
Im on my phone. Fat fingers
@freemo @LouisIngenthron gotcha, just wanted to check in case you were having a stroke or sumn
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
The only kind of stroke im having is a stroke of genius :)
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
Given the scenario I described should the company be allowed to fire them?
@freemo @realcaseyrollins In half the country they can just fire them for no reason at all 🤷♂️
@LouisIngenthron @realcaseyrollins
Its a bit more complicated than that.. in at will states you can fire someone "Without a reason", but if you have a reason (even jf you dont express it to the empluyee) ythe company may be accountable for what that reason happens to be.
@freemo @realcaseyrollins ...if the employee can prove that reason in a court of law, which is a tall order even for someone who hasn't recently lost their income.
Yup kt makes it harder to prove for sure. Point is it is still illegal for a company to fire someone ubder certain lines of reasoning.
@realcaseyrollins @freemo But public employees have much more control via the levers of public pressure. You hear about teacher salaries all the time. That's better than trying to convince an unsympathetic CEO who gets richer the less he pays you.
That's why I think the public/private line is where the union line should also be drawn.
Not all govt employees have public pressure, really only elected ones.
I would be ok with elected officials not being able to unionize though.
I also might like the jdea of making all police in a city elected positions.
@freemo @realcaseyrollins But the elected ones set the budgets for the rest. So they're the only ones for whom pressure should matter anyway.
The point is that other public employees can mount campaigns to get the public on their side to pressure the politicians to increase their budgets. An appeal to the masses, as it were.
> the jdea of making all police in a city elected positions.
Ooh I like this one. You should also be able to see each officer's stats, like a sports leaderboard, including things like hours spent patrolling, time shot, time they fired their weapon, times they'd been the subject to complaints, etc., to serve as a sort of "on the issues" thing
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
Oh and list the weight of the fattest person they arrested, like a bass fisherman. Maybe take photos with their catch on a scale ;)
@freemo @LouisIngenthron Haha absolutely! I was being quite literal when saying that we should be able to view such info like sports stats. A recent (past year) photo in uniform should be necessary
@realcaseyrollins @LouisIngenthron
I like the idea, despite the jokes
@LouisIngenthron @realcaseyrollins
Or they didnt burn your mail but are accused of it and the union protects them... they do deserve to be able to protect themselves and work together to do that... to a point.
@freemo Hmm... you were called out on something similar (all cats are beautiul stuff) because it promotes antagonism between police and civilians.
Now you say it is funny. In a situation where funny involves poor people getting fired.
I do enjoy that you are discussing things even if the other side does not agree, but i do start to wonder about your motives.
Do you agree that those profiting from the mentioned violent situations should be scruitinized?
