@admitsWrongIfProven except it wasnt really a change in problem. We are addressing the same problem (all the killing) but by requiring a prerequsite of thr dicussion being to frame the same problem but only with sokutions that assune your opinions are correct going in.. its basically "i know im bias but lets have a discussion where we assume my biases are correct".. it isnt bad so much as it will never give you a honest world view if you cant accept the solutions to a problem exist outside your proposed solution.

Less guns means more people dead, thr fact that the shape of the holes change seem like a poor measure of success.