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While autism is very much real I am of the unpopular opinion that the vast majority of people diagnosed with autism are incorrectly diagnosed. What we see as Autistic a lot of times is just what it looks like being the only sane one in the room.
It just makes sense, many of the people diagnosed are the only ones being rational and respectful in a conversation while everyone else is going to fly off the handle and accusing them of being rude or insensitive.... Its not that the Autistic cant read emotions, its that the other people are so malajusted they fly off the handle at getting offended frivilously, often some sort of personality disorder at play. But instead of labeling 90% of people as having the personality disorder or whatever it is that causes them to be toxic, we blame the 10% of rational people who dont play into that game and call it autism.
Keep in mind im largely talking about people here who are fairly high functioning, If they have trouble with verbal skills or any of the other symptoms of autism that dont relate to human relations directly, those cases are likely very real, even the higher functioning ones.
> I would say that pathologizing the way a minority of human brains work is the wrong way to go about it, so if that's what you mean by incorrectly diagnosed, then I agree.
That wasnt the point I was making, but is a tangential point I agree with.
> I do think it can be useful to explore how an individual's brain works, and whether they for instance tend to pay a lot more attention to rationality than they do to social norms. Or something along those lines. I'm far from any kind of expert in this area, but I'm learning.
I agree, the issue arrises when you see these two groups and assign one as diseased and the other as healthy... if we want to use those descriptors at all it should be reversed as it is the non-autists who generally create toxic unhealthy social environments.
@freemo I totally agree that we shouldn't call it a disease. I'm hesitant to call for reversing the descriptors, but getting rid of the pathology language and stigma seems like the right direction to go.
@strawd I tend to agree the language around pathology should be addressed... but even if we do that the truth is we still will need to identify some mental patterns as unhealthy and leading to harm, and others that arnt... The point here is the non-autists have a mental pattern that results in harm to their community. Autists are the ones who generally are the rational non toxic ones whos mentality doesnt cause harm but is instead causing them to be victimized by the other group.
but I don't like the us-vs-them stance I sense in your post. difficult as it is to cross the chasm that sets in because of our fundamentally different ways of reasoning and being influenced by emotions, I believe this diversity too can be very enriching to humankind. we need tolerance, inclusion, and disposition to overcome the difficulties from people at all spots in the spectrum, whether neurotypical or neurodivergent
I am not autistic myself, but i did do an informal expierment with a doctor friend of mine... he wasnt formally my doctor, this was just to prove out the point im talking about here.
I filled out all the questions and did the tests to diagnose autism twice. The first time through I answered all the questions where I explicitly put myself in the mindset of my American social interactions, and in that context. Then I did it again but answered based on my mental state when I live in europe.
Unsuprisingly the test done in the USA context indicated I would strongly on the autistic scale. But then the result for the European test (where mental health and toxicity is far less an issue) showed I was not remotely Autistic.
To me this ultimately proved my point.
> though not formally diagnosed, I often feel the frustration you describe. our being largely insensitive to common propaganda/advertisement triggers used quite effectively for manipulation of the majority of the population makes us Cassandras, able to see through the smokescreen, but unable to break the spell that blinds others.
Thats an interesting take... I'd say what this is describing is the fact that with 90% of the population having severe mental health issues (personality disorders mostly) that they are easier to manipulate emotionally and thus propaganda will work on them more. A person (autist) who is mentally healthy and clear headed cant be as easily manipulated, so it wont work on them.
> but I don't like the us-vs-them stance I sense in your post. difficult as it is to cross the chasm that sets in because of our fundamentally different ways of reasoning and being influenced by emotions, I believe this diversity too can be very enriching to humankind. we need tolerance, inclusion, and disposition to overcome the difficulties from people at all spots in the spectrum, whether neurotypical or neurodivergent
Its not about us vs them... "They" being toxic due to their mental health issues is not somthing intended to attack them. The point here is that this can be realized and instead of wasting psychiatry efforts on treating people that are just the victims, maybe the bulk of the population will address their mental health issues and finally have a healthier society.
@freemo Agree. A lot of "disorders" sound just like "not caving in".
What we lack is power to change this, not a way to pacify the ones that do not cave.
@iron_bug I have met a lot of people whom I was explicitly told by either the person or their caretaker.. I dont know how many of them lied...
I wish more people understood these matters
@freemo I would say that pathologizing the way a minority of human brains work is the wrong way to go about it, so if that's what you mean by incorrectly diagnosed, then I agree.
I do think it can be useful to explore how an individual's brain works, and whether they for instance tend to pay a lot more attention to rationality than they do to social norms. Or something along those lines. I'm far from any kind of expert in this area, but I'm learning.