@bonifartius I wouldnt mind survellance in public spaces if there was some really strict regulation about how its used.. my issue is governments are already way too abusive to be trusted with shit like that right now.

@freemo there were several studies in germany how surveillance impacts crime levels. the result was that aside from things stolen out of cars nothing really changes, especially not the rate of violent crimes.

@bonifartius I wouldnt expect it to deter crime. I would expect it to allow for quicker response time by police after the fact and a greater ability to track down criminals. Therefore it only works when the cops actually do their jobs, which i suspect they may not be doing.

@freemo greater response time would mean to have cops there already _and_ them doing their job :P

tbh, i'd much prefer common people carrying guns. stupid german gun laws don't prevent the real bad people from owning guns after all.

@bonifartius Id rather have common people carrying guns at a minimum before more surveillance is even considered, I agree

@bonifartius @freemo Funny, the Swedish right wing (well that’s a stretch IMO) government and traditionally leaning towards individual rights, makes the exact same argument when making new laws that actually restrict freedom.

@torparskytt @freemo
it's utterly stupid. history has proven that laws like these always will end up being abused, but the proponents always are expecting that it won't happen this time.