Consent and Admins - who not saying they are against things clearly?
Looking for 2nd opinions because I guess something doesn't seem right.
Will rewrite this in a few mins as I balance some other stuff but do prepare your own thoughts...
❓ Why if people care (and I think they do but just not as much as I - if at all) do people not write things more clearly in defence of what is happening or going to happen eventually. The topic is data scraping The Fediverse so
➡️ if it's not clear on our side
➡️ if they don't make it obvious as an instance how can they even say they are against it or complain big companies ignore us...
When people say 0 or even worse they say they are against something but don't do the simple things, it seems a bit suspicious after a while...
Again trying not to chase my own tail her and will give some more context so it's not too general.
CONTEXT = DATA IS BEING SCRAPING FROM OUR ACCOUNTS AND MY ADMIN WON'T PUT A SIGN
It's not a big drama but I'm still adamant it's a massive error / big problem of abuse. Why wouldn't you put a disclaimer on your own instance like it was your own website? Something to say "no commercial usage or processing allowed" or "creative commons not for commercial usage" "copyright" etc etc,,,
My admin says robots ignore it anyway but that's besides the point of putting a human readable sign on your own front door or shop window saying that you do not consent to your instance and users data being scraped - and to at least says so or ask users.
My admin mentions that a lot of people want coverage being on the net but scraping is not the same or right kind of coverage so I exclude that as reasoning (correctly or not) trying not to assume too much - but there more reasons too like:
why would they take notice if you don't write it there ?
If historically or say in court you go back in time and look to see there is no sign of a "no consent" then you would agree the person(s) didn't care too much for it or know it existed but did little.
In the past month alone 2 big projects have been scraping millions of profiles - one individual alone for a test project and one as corporate entity.
The corporate one is alone terrible if not Google or something doing things for their search engine or whatever.
Almost all of us come FROM those types of platform to get away so not saying seems frankly stupid (opposite our primary goals and directives)
The phrase "give them an inch and they might take your whole life and download it for their own commercial activity" comes to mind. Why do I only feel or see that it seem - anyone else?
#MeToo ? lol (not sure it's the right MeToo but anyway Scrape has the word rape in it so I do feel scRaping people's profile is digitally similar)
Individuals innocently doing a project is also a danger (what's to stop me?) and even if I can forgive that person (many didn't) I still think "no means no" even to things added or offered here "publicly" but could be said as disclaimer you're unhappy about data being collected and becoming something else. SO ok I added it to my profile but why not the instance covering everyone.
The whole logic of "they are ignoring us anyway" so don't put a sign on you own shop window might be as good as asking people not to steal or download it for commercial use but it is crazy / slack it seems not to ask even robber or rapers to kindly see that it's not what you would like and take the time to say BEFOREHAND.
I might like to say "I'll just scrape my own instance to prove this" and think about what I mean but if I don't do it someone else will so maybe I should... is a distraction of an ending but Hmm #QOTO is too quiet / lacking direction anyway it seems... people need enemies to get them together... though not suggesting me to teach. Right now Question Others To Teach Oneself is the way for now but not just that passively for the way forever I think... we must do
=============
And further distraction
for myself to consider looking at other things as indicators...
➡️ Admin Freemo is ok with AI
➡️ Admin Freemo not big into improving people as the main work in life (no use have "even more super tech" if everyone hasn't learnt how to express / communicate / feel ok with others / enjoy people / not hate. So doing this "the people work" or even therapy sounds odd but if for the way - hard if you're a data scientist or anything STRONG in other ways (why would you focus on caring for the individual human as you "systems thinking" answer -
I remember now to write about "systems" and "tech" by default always leveraging and needing imbalancing (heavy metals, resources, intensive initial energy, etc) in order to achieve what seems 'efficient' after - so if we "CARE" or respect life - we have to admit the tower PC's needed a lot of damage and mental on it's own and even small stuff now similarly or more precious metal...
ultimately a scientist might not be able to accept or leave his love for saving mankind in the material and emotional sense of sorting people and nature out but doing more of the things we're not doing like individual respect / listening / helping smaller humble human projects...
ok will rewrite this soon but any notes you write in reply I'll try keep
🇳🇱
@freeschool Stop demanding I speak for everyone to reflect your wishes.
Not everyone on our server wants our data to not be scrapped, some do, some dont. You want a "sign" about some default policy, put it on **your** profile. Also everyone gets the ability to select their web indexing setting, you can set it as private or not. Any robot that respects the standards will respect your setting, and robot that doesnt wont.
Putting up a sign does **nothing** to protect you, because bots do the scraping, not people. But even if it did many of us WANT to be scrapped so you have no right to dictate your privacy settings on a sign or statement reflecting everyone.
There are tools in place already for this, use it.
Feel free to talk about this all you want but what I dont like are 2 things
1) when you demand I give an idea attention when I say no its weeks if not months ofyou complaining and trying to generate hate campaigns against the decision or even attacking me as an admin.
2) now you've resorted to even putting words in my mouth like "Admin Freemo not big into improving people"
Ya know what I've never seen from you though... appreciation that I spend nearly 1K of my own money every months hosting services free for you to use. You've been ungrateful, demanding, and quite frankly rude time and time again and yet I'm still here letting you do you on this service, using my money to say negative shit about me, and even saying feel free to continue...
Frankly your attitude has been abysmal and it gets worse every day.
All good, no hard feelings like I said.
Dont confuse what I stand for, or how strongly I stand for it with what I stand for and impose on others.
I beleive very strongly that you should have **control** over your data. Not that it shouldnt be scrapped or that it should, but only that you should have the power to enable your data to be used how you please.
Any over arching statement about data I make as a default will impose my views about data on others. I only want to empower them.
My views mostly revolve around choice and empowerment but I go real strong into not having my views being forced on anyone else.
> If your main task is not improving people direction and more into the Tech or AI
I dont see these two as separate. You having access to powerful tools, if done right, should give you the means to improve yourself and others through better social interaction. The key here is empowerment rather than enforcing an ideology.
> Your past appreciation you also might forget so in general it's just a bunch of forgetfulness in total itself... like I haven't been grateful or should remain grateful for increasingly empty words I've had to push replies for (you could have updated us).
I dont need the appreciation so much... Its more about the tone and insistence on getting your way. Feel free to talk about it and im not suggesting you should stop. But remember this is a free service done as a hobby. This server was only ever opened to others out of generosity and no gain to me.
> It's not negative to say things you said months ago and even recently the searchable post would be done and frankly even free bad promises is also bad work like I said - nobody likes when the washing machine guy doesn't turn up again.
You stating facts werent really the issue, I quoted the part i mostly took issue with.
> Eat it and expect it from no power on my side or ability to align people out of what you demonstrate you clearly have or have not the time for sometimes.
If you managed to align the community to rally around a particular idea id be much more likely to adopt it. Generally I try to listen to anythign the community has consensus on.
> If you could help "pity the fool" who is data trapped here since Mastodon cleverly doesn't even have an import function or offline viewer of my data - somewhat great for these situations - so helping me export my data outbox,json to something human readable offline with pictures together means I'd quite happily "save" you all the money on me,.. and shows further you just don't get it and on some other mission.
If I wanted to save the money on you then I just wouldnt provide you the service. I wouldnt need to offer you something in exchange. I'm not obligated to keep footing the bill if I dont want to obviously. That said if I ever did decide such a thing I'd give plenty of notice. But still, this is kinda what I mean, your statement/tone here seems to suggest I have obligation to you like I owe you something. I dont, what I do I do out of a sense of consideration, not obligation.
@freemo
Heard what you said.
Perhaps not said as clearly before was that if you were actually looking for something similar to what I'm looking then this would be better actually better than expecting nothing or giving for free. Largely this is the problem and people don't see or want to do the participation or games at the lower levels or however to phrase it.
It's lacking a lot in my view but this is just my side said and I appreciate your side.
If we agree something then this is low value for us.
I simply have my export to try manage to import somewhere / somehow.
And not much else to say.
@freemo
I think you're not interested as the main thing and too busy for those things not interested in.
You're so fast in what you like doing... talking lots about elections - huh fair enough...
I already said when people say they will do or update something but do otherwise or say near-nothing then I'm not the type to stay silent. You were gone for weeks I called you on it - you answered to most of my question public and DM and they were polite or very simple. I understand you had to be away.
I understand some people stand more for something and also are luke-warm on it.
In fact I think you're coherent but simply not that interested.
If your main task is not improving people direction and more into the Tech or AI or whatever else, there is a sense of measurement and no shame about that even as my opinion or limited measurement- Do share more if you have. But no need over-extend.
I think you'd use / take more time on it if interested. This is itself a lot of proof.
Your past appreciation you also might forget so in general it's just a bunch of forgetfulness in total itself... like I haven't been grateful or should remain grateful for increasingly empty words I've had to push replies for (you could have updated us).
You might live a fast life or whatever have not a lot not to remember.... so fuck you're own ungratefulness in not seeing mine :)
Bringing up money is only reducing it down to the very problems I mean and only giving me back emotional stuff which I wasn't really asking for... don't play yourself.
It's not negative to say things you said months ago and even recently the searchable post would be done and frankly even free bad promises is also bad work like I said - nobody likes when the washing machine guy doesn't turn up again.
Eat it and expect it from no power on my side or ability to align people out of what you demonstrate you clearly have or have not the time for sometimes.
If you could help "pity the fool" who is data trapped here since Mastodon cleverly doesn't even have an import function or offline viewer of my data - somewhat great for these situations - so helping me export my data outbox,json to something human readable offline with pictures together means I'd quite happily "save" you all the money on me,.. and shows further you just don't get it and on some other mission.
Twitter's backup of messages was offline in the same interface as online... that would be a dream here but only saying how simple it was. Even a Wordpress style export or import via RSS... I dunno. But I need help in that and have been asking everyone.
The best I found is this below but doesn't attach any pictures to my previous posts and only as one long scroll which might not be bad if I found a way to search it as loading it all at long scroll for 100's of posts is asking a lot...
https://bovine.social/mastodon/
Disclaimer: this was written fast and without big emotion
(I accept you're mostly not feeling the same way for my ideas, missions or answers without expect ultimatums - it's all good now I know)
Again outbox.json to something human readable offline with pictures together - like a basic page per post in html would be great. Can't believe I can't even get out and Mastodon expects people to be programmers to program back together the export into some other format (and not it's own).