@josemanuel i’d just go with “is a scam” :)

@josemanuel As far as Europe doesn't have a strong army (I am not advocating for it, but that's a hard to miss reality) we have to either accept US leadership in military affairs (as we are doing) or become a puppet region for Rusia.
I have to add that USA has been trying to persuade European countries to increase their military spending at least since Obama's presidency.

@aurochs Does Switzerland need an army? It’s a neutral country. It never gets invaded. Why can’t we be like Switzerland?

I wouldn’t be opposed to more military spending if we got out of NATO and declared ourselves a neutral block. But being part of NATO puts us in the line of fire in exchange for nothing. Its purpose is to put us all in a more precarious situation. It only makes us more insecure by blindly following the US imperialist lead.

@josemanuel Would or would not Switzerland have gotten invaded if it didn't have an army?
On the other hand, I think Europe is on the line, wether we are in NATO or not.
About neutrality, I think it is often selfish position, and sometimes just evil.

@aurochs

Would or would not Switzerland have gotten invaded if it didn’t have an army?

I don’t know, but the truth is, not even Hitler did it.

On the other hand, I think Europe is on the line, wether we are in NATO or not.

I failed to see the threat we were supposed to be under a year ago. Our gas supply was guaranteed back then, but it isn’t right now. A nuclear war was not on the table a year ago, but it is now. The only difference is that the EU decided to side with the US on an issue that had absolutely nothing to do with us.

About neutrality, I think it is often selfish position, and sometimes just evil.

Better to be neutral than slaves to an imperialist nation. I mean, look at the NS2 pipeline. They’re not even trying to hide it anymore.

@josemanuel Switzerland was not invaded because it is a very difficult country to invade, was not particularly strategic and Hitler was interested in other preys. At least in my opinion. Do you think Hitler was looking for a neutral Poland?

Putin has been a threat and has treated Europe as an enemy for many years now, at least a decade, it is an issue I have been following and I have no doubts about it.

Also, it is Putin who has threatened to use nuclear bombs. I remind you that the US has never threatened to use them after WWII, neither in Vietnam, in Irak, or Afghanistan (wars that I opposed strongly, except Vietnam because I wasn't born then) or any other, but Putin has. Don't be fooled, there's no neutrality with Putin, only inaction that leads to more grabbing by Putin.

Russia is also an imperialist country, while the Spanish empire was being conquered (since the XVI century), Russia was also expanding and conquering lands and people's towards the East with the difference that it has kept those lands. And there's also a difference, Russia is not a democratic country, it is an ultranationalist, ultraconservative and antidemocratic government.

Finally, the NS2 was sabotaged by Russia, not US.

NS2 was sabotaged by Russia. It is not i

@aurochs

I remind you that the US has never threatened to use them after WWII

Well, the US never threatened to use them on Hiroshima and Nagasaki either, but they nuked them anyway. And they did that on civilian population and not as a form of self-defense. At least Putin has said: “We’ll do whatever it takes if Russian territory is invaded.” Zelensky, on the other hand, has advocated for preemptive nuclear strikes against Russia.

And, to be honest, I’d rather have a warning before my whole city gets wiped out when I go about my daily life, like it happened in Hiroshima.

Oh, also: didn’t the US use chemical weapons in Vietnam? Because I believe they did. Does Agent Orange ring a bell?

Finally, have you heard about the Wolfowitz Doctrine?

https://wikiless.tiekoetter.com/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine?lang=en

(The link there doesn’t mention that the EU was also explicitly cited as a potential objective of that doctrine. They’re not our friends. They never were.)

Russia is also an imperialist country

Maybe, and that’s why I wouldn’t support them either if they wanted me by their side. I never supported the invasion of Ukraine. (I still don’t, now.) I did say, though, that pushing Russia’s buttons was not the way to go—if we wanted peace. And I was right.

Finally, the NS2 was sabotaged by Russia, not US.

Show me some proof beyond “because I (or some political stooge) say so”. There is no logical reason for Russia to blow the pipeline. They already had a button to stop the gas from flowing towards Europe. And whenever they wanted to use it, they just said: “Oh, we’re sorry. There was a mulfunction in the pipeline. You’ll have to live without gas for a couple of weeks.” No need to sabotage something that could still be useful once the relationship gets back to normal.

Biden, on the other hand, did threaten to destroy the pipeline a few months ago. Condoleezza Rice (remember her from the Iraq war?) said in 2016 that the US didn’t want Russia to sell us gas, that we should be buying from them instead, as it (surprise, surprise!) is happening now.

I exclude any European country here, even though we can easily be that stupid.

So the only one that had a reason to do it and was around at the time of the sabotage was the US. Blanco y en botella.

@josemanuel Even though Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were horrendous, I think you are making a really unfair comparison, WW2 was already a global conflict (started by Nazi Germany and imperial Japan) which, at that point, had already killed over 50 million people. This is a (for the moment) regional war of invasion and only Ukraine is at war with Russia. It is more comparable to if US threatened to use nuclear weapons against Vietnam.
Also, Putin has said that, but just after that, he made parts of Ukraine oficially Russian territory, soo...