@freemo @louiscouture welcome to the libertarian half of the quad

@icedquinn

Thanks, been here for some time :)

@louiscouture

@freemo wait this is my political compass

@louiscouture pretty much right where I am :)

@freemo @louiscouture you are libertarian right, you can't redistribute wealth without authoritarianism

@ew @freemo to be fair, speckr specks me as slightly libright (almost on the center, but at x=1), but they definitively has a right wing bias. And actually I used to be way more leftist than that, but I really wanted to broaden my perspective on what society brings out the best for everyone.

@louiscouture

speckr/specks, huh? who or what is that?

@ew

@freemo @ew basically an an cap guy making promotion of anarchy and he also have a political compass

@ew

there is so much wrong/confusing about such a short statement

1) who said anything about redistributing wealth?

2) why would I be right?

3) authoritarian is top so why is that related to bottom right as you claim I am

4) one can be on one side of the compass and still adopt aspects from the other side, thats why it is a spectrum and not just left/right

@louiscouture

@freemo @louiscouture that 4 quadrant chart has economics on the X axis. if you are left that means you are against a free market, thus you believe in the redistribution of wealth. you do not have redistribution of wealth without a central authority doing the act of redistribution. thus, we can conclude that you are either an authoritarian leftist or a free market libertarian/anarchist. you could be a left libertarian but you would be delusional.

@ew

Your just going to ignore my other points, namely that its a spectrum and im not at the extreme and of either. therefore I can and do incorporate elements from each side to varying degrees,

@louiscouture

@freemo @louiscouture it's a spectrum of more government vs less government. left libertarianism isn't a thing, neither is right-wing authoritarianism.

@ew

You are making no sense.. if someone is near the middle and not at eithe extreme it means they beleive in some level of control, but less than those who would be higher up.. you seem to be laboring under the delusion that the second you cross the line even if your close to the center any form of control to any degree is no longer valid.. which makes no sense.

@louiscouture

@freemo @louiscouture your politics is fake shit, red line is what is real

@ew

saying complete nonsense that makes no sense when you explain it sounds just as ridiculous when scribble said nonsense on a diagram.

@louiscouture

@freemo @louiscouture it's non-sense to you because you live in fantasy land thinking you can pay for social programs without holding a gun to the heads of citizens

@ew @freemo so are charities holding guns to you? They fit the definition of social programs

@louiscouture @freemo yeah good luck paying for something like medicare with donations

@ew @freemo that's pretty much gofundme at this point

@ew

no im well aware that you need to "hold a gun" to peoples heads to pay for social programs, roads, snow removal on the highway, fire deartments, police, military, etc.. nor did I ever claim anything to the contrary... you dont see to bright as you completely ignored my entire counter argument and are going on some unrelated tangent... so probably not worth me discussing this with you.. your already having trouble following the conversation.

@louiscouture

@freemo @louiscouture good, glad we agree. so move yourself up back to the reality line and stop claiming you are libertarian. you are a leftist and you believe in a moderate amount of authoritarianism

@ew

I told you the conversation was over, you can go away now.

@louiscouture

@freemo @louiscouture left "libertarians" every time

@ew

I listened to you, I just determined you were an idiot, bit difference. good bye.

@louiscouture

@ew @freemo where is trump on the political axis?

@louiscouture @freemo probably right in the exact center. he doesn't really have policies tbh he just wants to be liked.

@freemo @ew can we stop pretending a system without someone holding a gun at you is somehow possible? What about the courts, what about the police? Someone gotta pay for this, and it's definitively not the free market

@louiscouture @freemo it's easy enough to prove as a dialectic if you want.

@louiscouture

There is only one political compass

@ew

@louiscouture @freemo @ew

If America didn’t have fire departments and we tried to implement them now, people would cry at the socialism and shout “I don’t want my tax dollars to pay for someone else’s fire” some things are not meant to be privatized. Cough like prisons Cough.

@lfrffs @louiscouture @freemo this is nonsense. prisons are incentivized to keep people in cages because that's what the government pays them to do. government doesn't pay them based on how well they rehabilitate criminals.

@lfrffs

Not sure i agree entierly. Most americans I think would have no problem supporting tax-payer paid fire departments. The Truth is the USA has some of the highest taxes in the world and we waste it on shit we dont need to (like the military)... there is good reason people are appalled by the democrats abusive spending and ever increasing taxes.

If the democrats actually **cut** spending (and there is more than enough to cut, like the military)and started spending our money responsibly there would be far less resistance to social programs.

@louiscouture @ew

@freemo @lfrffs @louiscouture I live in an area with a privately funded fire department.

@freemo @louiscouture @ew that is what I am trying to explain. It’s insane to privatize social programs because of the fear of socialism or authoritarianism.

@lfrffs

Depends on the service. Some services dont make sense being privatized, but the vast majority do. It is healthy to have a fear of socialism and authoritarianism to the point that you want to lean towards privatization (which more oftne than not works better) but at the same time you dont want to be so extreme that you push to privatize things (like prisons) that dont really make sense to be privatized (in the case of prisons because it gives legal authority to subjugate inmates which is already legally messy)

@louiscouture @ew

@freemo @louiscouture @ew I agree. I’m speaking in context of me living in the United States where healthcare is privatized and doesn’t make sense for anyone. Why? The fear of socialism, the fear of becoming ‘venezuela’ (which we created the downfall of). Even the process of filing taxes is privatized and lobbied to keep it that way. The IRS wanted to create a system to make it easy and free for us to file taxes but intuit and other organizations lobbied and lobbied and now we have to pay a middle man to pay the government. Where in all of this does the private citizen benefit.

@lfrffs @freemo @louiscouture you are making a lot of assumptions. medical costs are dirt cheap in mexico. healthcare is ridiculously high in the US due to dumb regulations.

@ew @freemo @louiscouture really? It’s not because of a for profit system. If it wasn’t for affordable care act people with preexisting conditions wouldn’t even qualify for insurance. Insurance here practically would be survival of the fittest, maximizing profits only covering those who don’t need it at all

@ew @freemo @louiscouture educate me on the dumb regulations

@lfrffs

As someone who lived in the USA, as well as many other countries with public health care, as well as a data scientist who spent a lot of time researching it I can say pretty confidently that the last thing you should want is public health care.. not that what we have is ideal either, it needs to be fixed too, but the healthcare they have in canada and europe is pretty horrific and not really a step forward

The thing is, once you create a state run monopoly and eliminate choice and flexibility, quality goes down as there is no market pressure. healthcare doesnt work as a completely public system, but it also doesnt work as a completely free market privatized system either.. IMO the solutions for healthcare lie in co-op healthcare.

@louiscouture @ew

@freemo @louiscouture @ew i think we can agree on having public options available next to privatization. Even our weather service is tax funded but is repackaged and sold again to us through weather subscription. Look up why the NWS doesn’t have an app. Devil’s advocate, what happens when in a co-op system the private sector can no longer compete with the public option? Should there be a fear that the government can heavily subsidize healthcare to the point that private companies can’t afford to compete with the premiums.

@freemo @ew @louiscouture the united states’ today is socialist. It always has been. The difference is it’s the corporations who benefit from it not the people.

@ew @freemo the way i see it is : up and down : social issues, left and right : economic issues

@louiscouture @freemo far left economics is communism which is just state monopoly capitalism, aka top left. far right economics is free market capitalism aka no intervention by the state, libertarianism.

@ew @louiscouture @freemo all of this is spook talk.

@Atlas_Khan @freemo @louiscouture true but don't be a faggot.

@freemo heres the one from idrLabs, it claims itself to be bias free and it probably is https://www.idrlabs.com/political-coordinates/test.php