@louiscouture well workplace democracy could do wonder tbh. Electing your hierarchy, defining investments and wages. And because you HAVE TO work, pretty much like you have to live in a country, you should have a democratic control over it :)
Somewhere along the lines the right wing became anti-corporate and the left became hardcore "social justice capitalist". The left is undoubtably everything old Socialists would have fought to prevent. They still have the same old "feel" of course- the feel that leftists are peaceful, anti-war, anti-authority, anti-corporate, and righties are conservitard oligarch RINOs. Obviously nothing could be farther from the truth.
You can see the shift with the rhetoric of right wing figureheads today. Always arguments and attacks against international finance, corporate oligarchs, and actual oppression. Now you see why corporate supports the left.
@Sudononymous @MilquetoastQT @louiscouture @Xalef
> corporate supports the left
You mean liberals? Cause last time I've checked, the corporate world universally hates trade unionists and workplace democracy activists
CEOs aren't expert political theorists. At least not by default. They may be interested in various subjects, but political theory may not be one of them.
Maybe, in a sense, the Leftists are right. CEOs are so disconnected from everyone else's reality that they don't understand what is going on. Of course, no one appreciates all of the stuff that we have, that is produced, how it came about, none of it. Well, I won't say "no one", but not enough for my liking.
Just be prepared for fewer economic goods, is all I can say. And war, and blood, and prisons.
@MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @louiscouture @Xalef
CEOs and more importantly shareholders do not need to be political theorists to be aware of the power they yield over economical and political spheres.
YOU work, and yet, THEY reap the product of your work; YOU, as an employee, CREATE wealth, and as shareholders, THEY have the "right" to take part of it WITHOUT even taking part of the production process.
Because YOU are the one working, YOU should be the one yielding this power.
The market determines what is valuable. You and I are the market. EVERYONE is the market. That's why it works. That's why it satisfies. The market determines what labor satisfies the most people the most. Otherwise, we have a dictatorship, where one man dictates what labor we must do, and no one is satisfied.
@MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @louiscouture @Xalef
> Investment precedes labor
indeed! but dont forget that investors have this money by stealing it from YOUR labor in the first place.
ppl can setup credit unions to replace them and fulfill this investment role. not only worker-owned businesses are profiting from this, but also the workers who own the credit union !
You're ignoring savings and people who start their own companies by those savings. That's not theft.
@adidal @MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @Xalef I don’t think you grasp who are investor.
Middle class people can invests, it’s not just the rich people.
@louiscouture @MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @Xalef
even though I dont believe there is such thing as "the middle class", I get your point ; not all investors are billionaire. they can be fellow workers too.
but our problem stays the same ; no one should have the right to appropriate the work of others.
and thats what ppl do through stocks ; they own parts of companies and expect dividends at the end of the year, even though they didn't took part in the wealth creation process of this company
You are focusing on small potatoes, as Commies usually do.
There was a time when I hated managers, and thought cashiers or assemblers or people at the bottom kept the company alive. Except that minimum wage earners don't care if the company lives or dies, especially if they have no experience, esprcially if they are envious. It's good for them to be told whay to do by those who get the bigger picture. The higher up you go, the more the bigger picture is umderstood. Most people at the bottom don't undersgand anything but what is right in front of them. They don't understand sales at all. They don't care about loss, they only imagine profit, because they have never looked at the financial statements. It's just ignorance and envy that stews until you get Commies making everybody poor, which is what is happening today.
Commies have no idea how good they have it as compared to Communism. They are blinded by envy, ignore historical reality, are only motivated by hatred and blood, and could not care less about the poor: they just hate the rich.
@MilquetoastQT @adidal @Sudononymous @Xalef I think that on the field employees can have some interesting perspective and managers that listen to their employees ideas can benefit from new money making opportunities
Most at the bottom are lazy, in my experience. They can't grasp things higher up.
Blinded by wealth envy. No undersyanding of why things are why they are so they just throw the word "greed" around.
Your average person is an egalitarian.
@MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @louiscouture @Xalef
so let me get this straight :
ppl who have to work, who are at the bottom, are lazy and envious for not wanting to get anything stolen from them ?
its like saying "thief-haters are jealous at the thief cause they wish they were smart enough to break into other ppl houses"
@adidal @MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @Xalef people decided to work for these bosses. They never were forced to work for them in particular.
I’m not saying there’s no exploitation in the workplace but to call it theft is exaggerated
@louiscouture @MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @Xalef
unless u work in a cooperative (so a workplace democracy), a non for profit organization, or you are self-employed, then u have no choice but to work for them in order to survive.
choice is nothing but an illusion for that matter.
Don't eliminate mine.
@louiscouture @MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @Xalef besides that, dont you wish u were able to elect your hierarchy and be able to held them accountable for their actions? like in a regular democracy? to me, thats what a real meritocracy looks like.
You are ignoring their work and what they did to get there because you suck.
@MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @louiscouture @Xalef
what a good wagie.
now go back begging for scraps to your overlord.
@adidal @MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @Xalef Z
Sure, that would be an awesome thing to do,
However, nothing is stopping you from starting your own cooperative and be managed democratically. I encourage you to do so
@MilquetoastQT @adidal @Sudononymous @Xalef you know nothing about him. Let’s not judge people or call them names just because of disagreements
If he had skills he wouldn't be complaining about being at the bottom.
And I doubt he's handicapped.
@louiscouture @MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @Xalef
God I fucking wish cooperatives were the norm and not the exception 
How would you run a corporation if you can't even start and operate a cooperative hahahahaha
That'd be like you hire me to mow your lawn and then I say "This is my lawn now." "But I worked for this property."
@MilquetoastQT @Sudononymous @louiscouture @Xalef
and guess what ; none of this requires the state's intervention in the economy. you still keep market mechanisms without exploitation.
Unions will be broken because it'll be considered harmful racism that attacks the disabled female BIPOC that manages the company(as a puppet of course).
As if these people would only care for names, not for the ideas behind them
Weird
Why do people hate something based on a name when they actually want that what the name is standing for??
I think in France it's quite too close to the nazi = bad, stalin = screwed up.
Which is probably quite the other way around in America :(
@duponin @lanodan @fluff @louiscouture Uh the DSA. They literally go around calling one another comrade.
@duponin @lanodan @fluff hmm they do actually https://cpusa.org
[:aqua_trauma_1::aqua_trauma_2::aqua_trauma_3:]
...but via osmosis on the internet, we barely covered that in history class :⁾;;
@louiscouture - not sure about Marxism in big tech corps but they are surely totalitarian and oppressive. Be it Marxism, Communism, or Nazism doesn't matter as it's a label.
