@freemo let's take Italy for example. 90% of the deaths were people over the age of 70yrs old. Also, More people are infected than numbers show too, obviously, since not every person has been tested. These numbers are on par with the other types of corona viruses. It's not abnormal (unless you decide to take the other similar illnesses as serious).

Rob us as devaluing our money with the fed, creating trillions out of thin air, and having to pay it back with interest. Creating an excuse to give big corporation billions or trillions with no guidelines on how to spend it. Crashing the economy to lower values, making it easier for the wealthy to gobble it up at those low prices, while everyday americans can't afford rent let alone investments etc.

@obi That is such complete nonsense I dont know where to start...

For starters how is the fact that 70% of people are older matter? That is true of every single virus that ever existed, older weaker people die in larger numbers, obviously. That is not in **any way** an indication the virus is any less serious. Ebola will melt your insides, but if your 80 you still stand way less of a chance of surviving ebola than a little kid, so what?

Next, yes there are people who arent tested, the number tested is **not** an indication of the total number infected, that is much much higher. If we go by the mortality rate of only people tested then the mortality rate is around 9%, which as you suggest is not the correct number. If however we use the data to approximate the actual mortality rate it is closer to 1% - 3%, that is not **anywhere NEAR** comparable to other coronaviruses that we see in the wild among humans (which are less than 0.01% mortality).. so no again this is nonsense.

Its not just nonsense it seems completely ignorant of the real data.

@freemo well maybe I am wrong. The data I've looked at showed mortality rate at 3.4%, of people tested. Or are we talking about Italy in specific, where I know its higher? There population age over 55 years old is about 10% higher than ours I think. That coupled with congestion and medical care wait times could also be a large factor in there higher death rate, in comparison to other countries.

I never said it shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm just confused to as why. A much higher number of people dies everyday from other communicable diseases, but we shut nothing down, take no extra measures. With emotion taken out of the equation, I can't see why such drastic measures are taken.

@obi No your reading the data all wrong..

So if you just look at unfiltered data world-wide of everyone who was tested postive and recovered thent eh mortality rate is a whopping 21%. the figure of 3.4% would be the number you get if you look at everyone tested with coronavirus all together anc calculate that against the percentage that have died, thats 3.4% figure you cited. but neither the 3.4% figure you cited nor the 21% "actual" figure are useful for several reasons. The biggest reason is that the percentage of people with **active** infections are as large as the total number of people who had infections and no longer do. Obviously if a person is going to die of this disease they die in the late stages, not the early stages, so you dont factor in people who just contracted the disease and is a day into it against the mortality rate, that would make no sense. You wait until after they recover to count them (or die).

So no the 3.4% figure is complete nonsense 21% would be the actual measured number.

With that said, as I said you still cant look at the people tested and the percentage that recovered vs died, since you will not accurately test asymptomatic people. For that you have to also factor in the results we see from randomized testing and infer. For that reason the 21% figure we see in the actual data is not really accurate as-is either, but when we factor in the randomized tests then we know the mortality rate is in the 1% - 3% range.

Compare that to the mortality rate of H1N1, the most deadliest flu in recent history which was only around 0.04%

@freemo how do the people infected showing no symptoms factor into that? Since I'm guessing they aren't at high risk of dying? Or isn't the a statistic on infected no symptoms patients?

@obi Those asymptomatic people are revealed through the random testing I mentioned. It is the reason the 21% mortality rate we observe is adjusted down to 1% - 3%, exactly due to these people (and those who are marginally symptomatic but dont need medical help).

@freemo I will definitely sit down and reevaluate the numbers with your data. My apologies, as I am trying to look at this while watch my three crazy kids. Thanks for the info. I reserve the right to respond later :p

@obi Of course, thats all I want to see people. Try to understand the things you take a stance on thats all. If you do that then I have no issue with any disagreement of opinion we may have.

@freemo thanks. I'm not ideologically, nor emotionally invested in this issue at all. As with most things, just trying to come to the underlying truth.

@freemo The more I try and evaluate this, the more confused I get. Looking at too many sets of data points, some contradictory, some with many more variables, some with what you told me, some showing numbers that says we are overreacting. My head hurts. Too many variables for me today. This topic has fatigued me today :( .

Side question - do you have an tips, or links to an article that may help me with port forwarding? I've done a lot of port forwarding in the past, but just installed a 2nd VM on my home server for Jitsi, and my router either isn't catching it, or i am doing something wrong. Works on local ip, but dns i set to route to public ip, then forward to jitsi vm ip isn't working, goes to an error screen for my nextcloud :(

@obi I never used hitsi VM and sounds like you are interested in port forwarding within jitsi VM and not general port forwarding (VMs usually set up their own virtual NATs)

@freemo Maybe that's my problem, I set up the VM as a bridged adapter, not a NAT

@obi 2well no, bridged is easier, but with bridged there is no need for a port forward either. Your VM should see the same ports as your computer.

What exactly is the issue your trying to solve?

@freemo I have 2 VMs, one running nextcloud, another running Jitsi. Both custom DNS pointing to my Ip. Accessing outside network always goes to Nextcloud. I've never dealt with outside access pointing to the same ip and same ports for 2 different services. Not sure how to tell dns how to get to jitsi vm/ip.

@obi same port for 2 different services on the same IP isnt really possible unless you can change the port that the outside tries to hit, then you can route it as needed. You basically have no sane way to run two seperate services on the same port of the same public IP.. you either need multiple IP or different ports..

You could for example, however, route two **different** ports on the same public ip to two seperate VM's. But to do that the services would either need different ports or the VM's would need different IPs to route to.

@obi Is this a http server perhaps your trying to run? In which case you could have them distinguished by their DNS name, in which case you'd use a reverse proxy.

@freemo I'm gonna have to dig into these jitsu settings on how to change ports. Its not obvious how. Thanks for the help. I expected I couldn't, but vague people in forums said that they could

@obi It shouldnt have anything to do with jitsu, it is a bridged network connection so the VM sees the same ports as a native app on your computer.. its the app itself that your running that is the question.

What app inside the VM is it your trying to connect to?

@freemo jitsi is the only app running in that vm

@obi ohh so jitsi **is** the app not the vm.. so what port does it need and what other app is taking the same port?

@freemo I would also add robbing children and adults (non-geriatric) of developing the immunity to this strain, since the vaccine is nowhere near ready.

But if we are going to go the route of treating it as the end of all ends, I think this country is handling it very well. I just believe its biggest play on average people in history.

@obi No one is robbing anyone of immunity, you seem to be completely uninformed as to what is happening or why...

The purpose of quarantine is not to prevent the disease from spreading to everyone. that is inevitable. The purpose is to "flatten the curve", essentially to make sure it happens slowly rather than quickly so medical facilities can treat people. In the end everyone is getting a natural immunity to this one way or the other.

I urge you to try to form opinions from the actual data and facts rather than just go full steam into conspiracy theory territory with a bunch of accusations and no real understanding of what your describing, it hurts us all but especially you.

@freemo u seem to be getting mad at this conversation. Remember, not everyone has the same opinion as you, nor perspective, right or wrong. That's why I joined this instance -question others to teach ourselves. Seems more like HOGB (have an opinion, get berrated) right now.

If you have a differing opinion, can't you help me teach myself by having a conversation with just facts and numbers? If they are facts, I will learn.

@obi I am not angry at the situation, nor am I concerned with a difference of opinion.

I do however have issue with making assertions from a place of ignorance, particularly when those behaviors are harmful to others.

Its clear you either didnt do your research here or do not understand the data you have read. So it is very concerning you are trying to make assertions as to the "real truth" without having that understanding.

@freemo how would my opinion be dangerous? That sounds similar to words are violence? I have no clout, nor position of power.

@obi Because

1) it encourages ignorance in others, and lazziness in how they determine the truth, and thus their actions and response to it.

2) It incites others and yourself to be dismissive of established facts and recommendations we all need to obey to get this virus under control

3) more generally, this sort of non-fact based reasoning of the world is a huge issue with society right now that really needs to disappear and causes issues in countless topics from politics to enviromental concerns.

You dont need clout nor position to have a negative effect on others, plus the effect on yourself and how you behave is just as much a concern as your effect on others anyway.

If you had absolutely no effect on others there would be no need for you to post statements like that on social media to begin with.