skells @skells@qoto.org

@sim @harblinger I really think the definition of virtue and vices are problematic, however the idea of going against your preferences is solid advice.

Reducing your exposure to pleasure, austerity, and increasing your exposure to pain, courage, are universal virtues when not pushed to extremes (or if you push it to extremes only do it for short spell)

at the end of the day, there's no replacement for self-awareness and good instincts, even if they have to be developed by experience (i.e. trial and error)

@sim @harblinger I tried reducing my time down to short spells but then you get into a conversation....

@vriska @cell @harblinger @sim this is my point really, it's very difficult at the time to really judge what is virtue and vice once you get outside the library, barring the really egregious shit

@sim @harblinger shitposting on fedi is almost certainly a vice

@sim @harblinger is it a virtue to go out drinking with friends?

or is it a vice?

@sim particularly as "full potential" involves not only value judgements but also projections into the future - and received wisdom and morality are almost always behind the times

@sim If you define a vice as something that stops an individual reaching their full potential (difficult to define I agree) and a virtue as something that helps them towards it then yes, vices should be reduced where possible and virtue increased.

my point is epistemic; such a definition of virtue and vice is nice as far as it goes but almost impossible to clearly state in an individual case, let alone in general.

@thendrix @djsumdog what the fuck were they thinking with this, f it's not clickbait then this is really fucked up

@sim i've given a few examples above; psychedelics and alcohol use might be an example, pre-marital sex another

for some, these are not appealing and morally wrong, for others it forms a healthy part of their life

what's an example of a vice for you

@DW2
> *fully* legal

life in the UK is a little more complex than it first appears

@sim
> Suddenly, you are justifying vices as means.

nuance is not watering down the discussion, but dogma can end it

@thendrix @djsumdog tbf the Hannibal series was killer

@djsumdog @thendrix and so the wheel turns

@thendrix @djsumdog this clickbait is getting desperate

@sim people are different, a writer who spends their days at a desk and occasionally going for walks will require less protein than an olympic athlete

same with lifestyles, some people can work harder with little need for recreation, others need a little more chaos uncertainty to thrive and be creative

the idea one can provide a single heterogeneous moral mean for all humanity seems detached from reality , unless you're aiming for something very abstract that can be so generalised

what if it is, in fact, fine