I'm hearing so many attacks on #democracy and so many calls from people I would respect otherwise to have “less democracy”… All those (#ThaddeusRussell, #GarettJones, #MenciusMoldbug…) seem to be confusing “smaller State” with “less democracy”.
When we #ClassicLiberals criticise the tyranny of the majority, what we are saying is that no State or institutional power should intrude so deeply into personal matters — not that we would prefer those intrusions to be orchestrated by dictators, oligarchs or technocrats instead of democratic institutions (imperfect and fallible as they may be)! We want less #coercion overall (ie, less #State) — not to move the extant coercive power from democracy to #autarchy.
Please reflect about that distinction if you find yourself dissatisfied with the status quo and flirting with the ideas of #NRx, #DarkEnlightenment, autarchy, #monarchy, etc.
@gasull He might be a genius — I don't know him, really. But my first reaction about a writer that's “cryptic” is that either he's full of shit (most often), or he's dog whistling because he doesn't have the balls to be clear. I'm now reading a couple of his long posts, and I'd love to find the time to write a critique, because so far I'm irritated by so much bad reasoning.
#menciusmoldbug
@tripu I've been learning about him because he's becoming very influential and I wanted to understand his ideas.
In a way he's like the Chomsky of the right. You find yourself nodding when he explains what he's against, but it's hard to know what he is for, and he doesn't do a good job supporting it.
@gasull This week I listened to this #CurtisYarvin interview by #MichaelMalice (over several days, while working, not focused).
In it, #MenciusMoldbug says he’s #rightwing because he’s for order and not for chaos. As in: more secure streets and fewer homeless people is more orderly. Who could argue against that?
Some of the other easy examples he fails to mention are: one human race giving the orders while the other races do the work is also more orderly than the “chaos” of mingling all skin colours; there’s more order in a society with no drugs than in a society where people seek inspiration and comfort and silliness in drugs. Top-down autocratic hierarchies definitely generate more “order” than voluntary agreements between peers. Heterosexual relationships, mandatory marriage and monogamy are “order”, while free love and tolerance are more chaotic. etc.
To me, more signs that he’s a very dangerous and charismatic demagogue. Shamelessly dog-whistling to advance the most retrograde of causes :(
@tripu
Sorry I missed this. I want to get back to using Mastodon more frequently. I also barely use Twitter lately.
We're in agreement. Mencius seems to be authoritarian, somewhat closeted, because it isn't clear what his support for "order" means in practical terms. What can the government do and not do to support "order"?
If you're in support of the traditional family, but that doesn't translate into govt policies, then you're just stating a personal preference.
Added video to my queue.
Well, the man is explicitly against democracy, for authoritarianism, and is calling for a king, no less. He didn’t left much inside the closet!
Sorry for insisting on these points again. It’s just that I’m worried that sometimes decent people (like you) seem to make too generous a reading of his ideas, inadvertently contributing to popularising his agenda.
I definitely agree with you about the difference between supporting or promoting anything, and enforcing it through government.
@tripu Not really a generous reading. I think you can learn from someone regardless of their intentions.
@gasull that’s for sure! 👍
@tripu I finally watched the video. I find Moldbug extremely boring because he talks in circles, both in interviews and in writing.
But I think you're extrapolating his ideas. In the playlist I linked to above, I remember an instance where monarchy is defended because (I paraphrase) "a monarch wouldn't care if you light up a joint":
https://mastodon.social/web/@gasull/105509752581378682
This doesn't convince me that a monarchy is better, but he's right about the wrongs of the US govt/democracy/republic.
I agree: he talks in circles. And he’s ambiguous on purpose.
I don’t have the time (nor the patience) to dive deeper into his ideas, but your approximate quote reinforces my impression that he’s sugar-coating very dangerous ideas: kings through History have not been champions of individual freedom nor laissez faire advocates; quite the opposite.
Some king might be tolerant of, or indifferent towards, soft drugs, “decadent” art, “deviant” sexual habits, state religion, or whatever — sure. But it’s obvious that if investing one person the power to rule others at their whim is a recipe for capricious repression and misery.
One can (should) criticise the shortcomings of our current systems without resorting to whitewashing forms of government that are demonstrably even worse.
Sorry for rambling. I think we both agree about these points. I’m thinking out loud — again :)
@tripu Mencius Moldbug is very cryptic, so I have been learning about his ideas by having someone digesting them for me. These video series is really good:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8BezN9dxUhV-3yrmIx_5_pBd1eGSzbkA
I find Mencius' analysis very insightful and fascinating, but I am not convinced neocameralism is the solution, as he proposes. I don't think we know what's the optimal solution. We need experimentation with charter cities to find it out.
As Assange said ”every political theory is bankrupt”.