Remember the thrill of catching breaking #USPolitics news events on Twitter by following posters who were generally on top of the latest happenings?
Well, a good source on Mastodon for this kind of thing is Laffy @GottaLaff.
@mastodonmigration @GottaLaff I don’t understand why anyone thinks they owe him any loyalty!?!?
Well, that's just how a proportion of the population is, a certain personality type basically, where the person values the concept of loyalty so highly that they will force themself to remain loyal pretty much no matter what.
It's not how *I* am and it sounds like you aren't either, but yep, I've known such people, and they also show up in research on interpersonal psychology.
@mastodonmigration @GottaLaff
@volkris @mastodonmigration @GottaLaff that just sounds plain crazy. It’s like they’ve got blinders on. I support Biden, but if he committed half the crimes trump did, I’d drop him in a second.
it's just about different people having different values, with some people placing a VERY high value on the concept of loyalty.
Compare it to the famously high valuation that the Fast and Furious franchise puts on family :)
Many folks of that mindset don't have blinders and are well-aware of Trump's issues, but they simply value loyalty as such a lofty ideal that they would remain loyal despite those issues.
@mastodonmigration @GottaLaff
@volkris @mastodonmigration @GottaLaff it’s amazing that they apparently value loyalty over racism, sexism, sexual harassment and trying to destroy the democracy of their nation. I hope I’m never that blinkered.
Well it's definitely different.
It's kind of like the family member who really hopes you (I don't mean you obviously I just mean the general you) can get your act together someday, and really disagrees with who you are today, and really thinks you are on the wrong path, maybe even really hopes you find Jesus, but because you are family they will stand beside you and do their best to help you be a better person even as you are a clear and utter mess today.
So many Trump supporters flat out say the guy is a ridiculously flawed human and they really hope he improves at some point.
So it's tricky to describe them as blinkered. It's just a different weighing of how to engage with other humans.
@volkris @mastodonmigration @GottaLaff but the ones I see on social media, YouTube and TV all think he’s perfect and don’t believe anything said against him. Are they the majority or the minority???
I don't know about YouTube and TV but as I listen to mainstream conservatives reading their articles online and listening to them on the radio they absolutely decry the guy's faults.
Radio might be the best example because they take a lot of callers from across the country who all talk about how the guy is so imperfect even if they support him.
So yeah I think it sounds like you are only seeing a small sample in the YouTube and TV that you are watching.
@volkris well I have my fingers crossed that trump with either end up in jail before the election or he will soundly defeated by Biden 🤞🏾🤞🏾
I just wish we had better options than these two jerks, and I wish Biden wouldn't engage in these prosecutions that make Trump so poised to even potentially be reelected.
@volkris there’s no one better than Biden to go up against trump. With all the positive Biden has done and his record voting numbers in 2020, he had to be the democratic choice.
You’re confused about the prosecutions happening to trump, they’re because he broke multiple laws. Everyone gets charged when they break laws, he’s no different.
No I'm not confused about the prosecutions happening to Trump, I am entirely on board with the notion that he broke multiple laws.
And no! Not everyone gets charged when they break laws. That's up to the executive as to who gets charged and who doesn't. We all break laws every single day. Just look at the number of people who speed on the street everyday without being charged. Prosecutorial discretion is a thing.
So at the end of the day there is a real question to whether society is better off or worse off if Biden charges Trump with crimes, considering that those charges are helpful to Trump's campaign, helping him get closer to being elected president.
Personally, I would rather Trump have gone on to live out his days ignored as a ridiculous former president now wasting away on a golf course rather than potentially being reelected due to the attention brought by these charges.
If these charges mean that Trump might be reelected, which they very well might, I would have rather not brought the charges if it meant him not being reelected.
@volkris that’s rubbish. The man attempted to destroy the democracy of a nation of 300 million people. There is zero chance that the DOJ wouldn’t charge him. Plus he attempted massive voter fraud in Atlanta. You seem to be equating his TREASON with an ordinary person jaywalking.
@Craktok I have no idea where you are getting that
@volkris I saw him attempt it with my own two eyes.
Did you?
Even the indictment points out that Trump was following the electoral count act in the lead up to the January election.
So I don't know what you could have seen with your own two eyes, him trying to overthrow an election that had not yet occurred.
@volkris ha ha ha, you trump goes always trying to gaslight. Unfortunately for you, my eyes can’t be gaslit. Try better.
It was written right there in the indictment.
@volkris I’m not sure what your point is, are you saying that trump hasn’t been indicted 3 times in the past couple of months? Including an attempt to overthrow the democracy of the country?
I'm saying that Biden's indictment of his political opponent is by its own terms factually without merit.
The indictment itself cites the law showing that Trump cannot have committed the offense it claims that he committed unless he somehow traveled in time, as it accuses him of trying to change an election that had not happened yet.
So the indictment itself is a stretch, a reach, by its own factual claims.
And we really need to hold Biden accountable for this screw up.
@volkris what are you talking about? What has Biden got to do with the indictment??? Are you confused?
No, Biden's administration indicted Trump for trying to change an election that hadn't occurred yet, and the indictment itself cited the timeline that pretty much admitted that it was not on solid factual grounds.
It's all right there in the indictment.
@volkris where are you getting this rubbish? The DOJ changed trump for his multiple crimes against the American people. That’s how the law works.
Yes exactly!
Biden's DOJ charged Trump with crimes that, in its own charging papers, are clearly factually off base.
In its own papers the DOJ indictment acknowledges that the law provides for the challenge that Trump made in the run up to the election that he supposedly tried to overturn before it had even happened.
Yes, that is how law enforcement works: The administration gets to accuse people of things, but that doesn't mean they actually did it, and in this case the charges are defeated by the acknowledgments in the indictment itself.
@volkris how do you keep getting it so wrong. The DOJ charged trump as he tried to destroy American democracy. The White House had nothing to do with it. It’s not so hard to understand.
You might be forgetting that the DOJ is part of the executive branch and so it takes its orders from the White House.
The Attorney General is part of the president's cabinet and he answers directly to the president.
Anyway you say I'm getting it wrong but I'm just echoing the DOJ. The indictment itself recognized the laws that sanctioned Trump's actions.
So why did it charge him even as it in its own words pointed out that he was following the law?
Well again, Biden's DOJ brought suit against his main political competitor, so at the least that looks really really fishy.
@volkris you are getting it wrong. Under trumps administration he did like to direct the DOJ, but under a proper president they act autonomously. As they should. Any other questions?
No they can't act autonomously. By law the executive power of the US government is vested in the president, so if a president is shirking his responsibilities to oversee his branch, that's pretty much an impeachable offense right there.
The DOJ is an executive branch agency.
As head of the executive branch the president is responsible for what it does, and the president needs to be held responsible for both good and bad actions of that law enforcement body.
To say that the president is not responsible for his agency is to say that the federal law enforcement doesn't have to answer to their boss. It's a pretty dangerous proposal, giving the police free reign.
I don't know how you feel about cops, but I for one am not comfortable with the idea of police being able to have such unchecked authority.
@volkris rubbish. You’re saying the FTC or the DEA or the FBI run all their cases/work past the white house. That’s some genius level bullshitting 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
That is literally the foundation of the US federal government.
The White House is absolutely responsible for all of it. And the president gets to be held accountable for all of it. And he can be impeached for misbehavior of any of them.
Honestly I think you might want to think a little bit harder about the alternative, as it seems like you are supporting the concept of law enforcement being able to act without oversight.
The whole reason that the president is in charge of the FTC and the DEA and the FBI is because we really need to make sure that law enforcement has accountability, that the president is liable for all of their actions, and if they misbehave the president might lose his job.
So I don't think you should be so quick to celebrate this concept of law enforcement without accountability.
@volkris you trump guys think everyone works the way trump does. Just because trump tried to weaponise the copy’s, military and DOJ, you assume every other president will do that. The head of the DOJ appointed an independent counsel to lead ok into the multiple crimes the orange buffoon committed.
What are you talking about? I am absolutely anti Trump and I look forward to him being locked for the idiotic nonsense that he has gotten up to.
This has nothing to do with how Trump works. It has to do with holding the police accountable.
We cannot abide by this really factually incorrect theory that federal law enforcement doesn't answer to the president. No, by law the president is responsible for what the executive branch does. Biden doesn't get to just take the out and pretend like federal law enforcement is doing its own thing, and he's not responsible for them.
That is giving federal law enforcement way too much freedom to abuse their power, to be used their positions.
We need to be very clear about this. No, federal law enforcement doesn't get to just do it at once without being held accountable under the president.
@volkris I’ve found it’s always the trump voters who believe that Biden has weaponised the DOJ instead of understanding that they act autonomously. Yes all branches of the government answer to the president, but that’s different from being controlled by the president.
They literally cannot act autonomously. Their entire legal process is based on having orders from the president. Without presidential orders the DOJ has zero legal authority.
That is a core feature of the US government, a basic matter of civics.
Any law enforcement that acts without the authority of the president is going rogue and acting illegally.
@volkris and again you pretend to not understand facts. The DOJ do not run their cases past the White House. The White House did not tell them to prosecute trump. I can’t make it any clearer for you than that.
I am willing to believe that Biden sharked his responsibilities like that, and I would consider that to be an impeachable dereliction of duty.
The DOJ operates subordinate to the president, the head of that branch of government. Should a president so proudly declare that he won't exercise oversight of the most powerful law enforcement agency in the country, that's a pretty big deal!
And it's a shame that we would tolerate it as it is a very dangerous precedent to be setting.
@volkris ha ha ha. Who says you trump guys aren’t funny.
As I recall, I called for Trump's impeachment for the exact same reason: his refusal to oversee his agencies.
Heck, these days I tell every Republican who would listen that they need to be running against Trump based on his failure to manage his branch. It's amazing that so many of the exact things I hear conservatives complaining about come directly out of Trump's epic failures in the job, that they allow him to trumpet as successes without calling him on it!
Unfortunately it's such an echo chamber in here I can't find many conservatives to ask them, what are they thinking?
@volkris I dint even know what “trumps failure to control his agencies” means, more importantly he tried to blackmail another country to steal the US election and let hundreds of thousands of Americans die. That’s the minimum he should go to jail for.
Of course it’s a “echo chamber” and there aren’t too many crazy republicans on here. Most people on here are sensible so there’s no reason they’d be voting republican.