volkris @volkris@qoto.org

@jupiter_rowland in the end the user chooses their own experience based on what client they choose to use.

If a user is very worried about being triggered by an image then they need to use a client with features that would hide all images.

It's not your responsibility to save a user from bad choices about which clients they choose to use.

@mnutty because the fewer words the better, lest you risk upsetting your confirmation bias with a more informed view of the world?

Really, it should be immediately clear why picking a single word out of a speech isn't a legitimate path toward understanding.

It's just childish.
@jensorensen

@GW@newsie.social I don't particularly disagree with that, though. I'd have minor quibbles, but I think that's largely the situation, at least one half of it.

@hulavikih I would frame that differently:

We give the craziest politicians the most publicity and attention.

We should stop doing that, and step one is recognizing the role we play in that culture!

@jensorensen I disagree.

As you can see from your screenshot and also confirm in video recordings, he went on to clarify what he was talking about with more specific complaints than merely the singling out of people of different political persuasions.

So with that included it changes his proposal, that he was going to prosecute people who "lie and cheat and steal on elections"

Yes, that's all part of the BS that he feeds his crowd, but it changes the line away from being just about prosecuting political groups, as it has been portrayed.

When I listened to the original audio and double checked it with the video right now, with his pacing I believe it should be regarded as one long sentence, not cut in half as so many have.

https://youtu.be/agAHZF3uPdE?si=qzMjGUVSBVOe9VdX

@mnutty

@kaffando but I would use Trump and MAGA as perfect examples to make my case!

The MAGA crowd existed before Trump. Trump just saw them, saw an opportunity to use them to enrich himself, and so he was a reflection of them, not the other way around.

I think a lot of people had been kind of sitting in echo chambers where they hadn't seen the MAGA type people growing in numbers and frustration for a decade, but I watched it. I saw it and I tried to warn other people about it.

If you watch unedited videos of Trump in friendly interviews and even on the campaign trail, often enough you'll see that he doesn't know what to do until he takes cues from the audience. Often he will make the most generic policy statement until the audience tells him what he is supposed to say, or he will sit kind of neutrally until the audience basically prompts him to do something stupid.

But yeah, Trump and MAGA is a great example of exactly what I'm saying: governments these days seem to often reflect the mood of people, not the other way around, which is why it's especially important to focus on people.

Even if you change the government, that doesn't mean it changes the people, see for example today with Trump and MAGA going strong even after the US changed its government :-)

@kaleb@social.coop I've heard it's already possible in ActivityPub even without new delegation functionality, but I've never understood how.

It seems really contrary to the basic model of the system that puts instances at the center of everything, not users. People complain about missing comments in comment threads in part because of that fundamental model, and it's just one sign that account portability across instances would be a tough ask.

I know AP does have cryptographic signatures involved in its operation, so maybe that's part of how it might work. Or I could also imagine bolt on functionality where there would be a home instance and a user using another instance would basically have all traffic forwarded to and from and through the home instance.

But it's hard to imagine a way of cleanly getting around the choice to make instances first class above users.

@jeffowski so what's your solution to that?

@kaffando I tend to think governments don't actually have that much control over how people act towards each other.

Kind of the opposite, governments these days seem to reflect their people, not the other way around.

Unfortunately it is a much simpler story to blame government for how people act. People are messy, so looking at bottom up causes are more complicated.

But more accurate.

@tcely I get that, but my practical concern of the moment is that fighting over the terminology of broken versus not broken, even if that is a valid and worthy thing to address in its own right,

I worry that that argument distracts from the task of addressing the practical problem of correcting users' mental models, so that they can use the platform more effectively and safely.

I agree that broken is not the best terminology for the guy to use, but I would rather focus on fixing the mental models than dying on the hill of whether software meets its design goals :-)

@tcely I agree that it isn't really broken, however the problem is that so many on fediverse are actively misinformed about how privacy on the platform works.

I don't want to say it is using the wrong mental model because it's something a little more basic than that. Users are simply misled about privacy.

To be clear, I'm not really disagreeing with the post, it's more about how do we frame this in a way that addresses the situation.

Heck, I don't think we're even disagreeing with the original post there.

This is a problem that needs to be addressed. That post described the problem as broken software, you describe it as users using the wrong mental model, and I describe it as users being misinformed about how it works, and the funny thing is I end up circling back to the original post trying to raise awareness and clarify that for users.

Maybe it's three takes on the same problem :-)

@olmitch how are they planning on gaining critical mass, is the hard question.

@ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk off the top of my head is not so much that there are groups in ActivityPub as much as the standard explicitly says that an ID doesn't have to necessarily be an individual user, so it can be a group.

Off the top of my head I don't remember any group functionality beyond that, saying you can be a group.

@kurtsh @JonChevreau

@kcarruthers yep!

And that's a very good reason to keep voters in the story, because it emphasizes that we really need to do a much better job of informing voters about how their own government works.

They really are core to so many issues that we are having.

That's why I want to keep talking about voters when these things happen, because voter is not only drive the process but represent an opportunity to fix a lot of things, if we focus on informing them better.

@mnutty Well then I guess like you said, here is a cartoonist lampooning journalism and the way they misreport fact to confirm biases all the time.

Jokes on us I guess.

@jensorensen

@shayz0rz interesting, I hadn't heard any Doctor Who news in a long time, so it looks like I need to figure out what people are talking about!

@kcarruthers The thing to keep in mind is that the public voted for the representation behind this stuff, so this stuff is addressing what the voters were concerned about.

It's always key to remember the roles of voters in these instances because they are the ones that we really need to engage with.

A lot of voters had questions about the election, and we would have been better to engage with their questions from the beginning rather than facing these cleanup jobs later.