volkris @volkris@qoto.org

@lolgop That's not what they said, though.

@lauren so I think the most important thing you got wrong in your comments is when you say that they are very happy with what he did during his presidency.

They're not.

They are very happy with what they were misled into thinking he did during his presidency, a bunch of things that didn't actually happen, in particular a TON of promises that he made that he didn't keep.

So what we should be doing is highlighting that he broke his promises, that he was such a loser, that he let his own supporters down. But unfortunately for whatever reason Trump opponents are more excited about pretending that the guy was some kind of success, talking about things he supposedly did do, which only builds them up to his base.

Trump supporters are not happy with what he did during his presidency because he didn't do what he said he was going to do. They are happy with these lies about what he did, though.

And that gets back to my point:

It's really easy to defeat Trump. You just have to be honest, point out to the capitalists that the guy is being an isolationist, and point out to the isolationists that he's being a globalist. On his record he stands no chance of ever holding political office again.

And so many of his voters are open to noticing that.

Unfortunately that message, again the real one, the one based on fact, is not playing any significant role that I've seen in US discourse.

Instead we let the guy say coffeffve or whatever that was, and we let it go instead of pointing out what a loser he is.

Trump had a terrible track record but Democrats seem too busy trying to build him up as a evil villain than to point out to Republicans that he let them down.

@lauren I think it makes all the difference because if we focused on and reported on what an empty suit of a loser Trump is, it would really deflate him among his supporters.

Even if we focused on how his own supporters don't agree about policies, even that would unmask him for being such an empty shell of a person, since his own supporters don't agree about the positions that he's taking.

I mean, for example, just highlight how half of his supporters are isolationist and the other half are capitalist and that alone would really undermine his support as his own supporters would have to grapple with those contradictory stances that he supposedly stands for.

It makes all the difference that Trump's base is so fractured but they are effectively unified by the way we talk about them.

And that's the thing: If we talked about Trump more honestly (or, better, didn't talk about him at all) then he would completely fail in the political arena as he deserves to.

Trump's enemies are basically his best friends at this point, their rhetoric pumping him up and making him anything even approachable to an electable candidate.

@DMTea Well no to deny it is to look at the facts and see that those claims amount to nutty conspiracy theories that just don't match with the record.

We have a huge problem in the country today that people don't know what is true and what's not true. People are so happy to pursue bias confirmation that they buy into all of these stories that just don't fit the substantive record, that again are pretty out there conspiracy theories.

We really should be calling out the folks who are promoting those stories because of the way they sew discord, and heck, even help get trolls like Trump re-elected.

That does nothing good for any of us.

But you can name call if you want. The problem is that I'm sure neither of us wants the guy to be re-elected, but unfortunately going down that road sets him up for it.

@kvc Oh I would just like people to recognize that they are taking choice away from voters and promoting an undemocratic perspective.

As long as people recognize that, it works for me.

@lauren Right but it means that since different people are projecting different messages onto Trump's rhetorical vomit, on one hand he's not in control of it, and on the other different people are filling in different messages so there isn't a single coherent position being proposed.

That makes an enormous difference!

@lauren Right but that's one of the big reasons why I would reject all of these notions that Trump is particularly comparable to Hitler.

From issues of rhetoric to understanding of the world in general, Trump is just not that capable.

His third grade reading level, and his inability to vomit out coherent lines of thought, means he's just not nearly somebody managing the same sort of campaign.

@rhizome it's perfectly possible for democratic processes to call for undemocratic laws.

Nothing prevents that.

Again, let's own it.

If we are voting for restrictions on voting, fine. We just need to admit that that is what we are doing.

Maybe we should consider some poll taxes? I would vote against them, but hey democracy means I don't get my way.

@liquor_american @chrisgeidner

@decius meh, It ends up being preaching to the choir.

If you're not already on that side then this analysis isn't going to convince you.

So it turns into bias confirmation at best, which is unfortunate.

@DMTea I mean if I was trolling I would simply call you a fascist and be done with it.

But if you're interested in talking let's talk.

Otherwise I'm just going to assume you're a fascist and walk away.

@axios I don't know what's stunning about the headline.

With a closely divided Congress that seems pretty expected.

@smellsofbikes Hi, running a country is difficult, especially one like the US.

It was never expected to be easy.

And that is exactly why we have things like state control over election processes, because with the diversity of experiences, and values, and situations from the Atlantic to the Pacific we've needed a slightly complicated, slightly difficult system to account for that diversity.

And so we have a country with vertical separations of power so that different communities can be responsive to their unique needs and values.

Yeah, that can get difficult. But it's the system we have.

@liquor_american @chrisgeidner

@KarunaX it's worth emphasizing that your description doesn't match the question actually asked.

@smellsofbikes Hey I'm all for supporting your voting for Swift.

I don't know what state you live in, but I am all for every voter in every state being able to vote for whoever they want to vote for.

@liquor_american @chrisgeidner

@joelle in the US the democratic process elects electors, not the president.

But putting that aside, it has nothing to do with January 6th.

Since Trump lost that election it's not like he was elected to lead a riot against his own election that he lost.

That story just doesn't make sense.

The rioters protested against the institutions that they had lost faith in, which has very little to do with Trump, and that's so important to realize. We really need to restore faith in those institutions.

Anyone who thinks that Trump is the center of this is really missing that the general public has lost so much faith in very important institutions, and that faith really needs to be engaged with and restored.

Trump is not the core for that. He is the empty suit that so many projected their opinions upon, sadly, taking out their frustrations upon.

Unless we understand that we're not going to be able to fix this situation and the sad impacts of the Trump presidency or just going to continue.

@liquor_american @chrisgeidner

@michelemccarthy The problem is, that's what Trump wants you to do. It's his strategy.

In general Trump's messaging is exactly why you ignore him because giving him attention just feeds the troll, has the old internet adage put it, and responding to it just encourages his supporters.

Going on offense against Trump just increases the likelihood of him being elected, or of any Republican being elected.

@joelle agreed!

But it's not black and white.

Even though the US has never been a pure democracy, we might want to respect some democratic processes, we might want to respect the will of the voters sometimes.

And so again, when we are saying we are not going to respect the will of the voters, let's own it.

Okay, fine, we will not allow a foreign dog under the age of 10 to be elected to president. Yeah that seems reasonable.

So it's about being clear that for whatever reason Trump is terrible enough that we are going to tell voters they can't vote for him, we are going to say the democratic process is suspended for him, because he's just that bad.

The point isn't to reject democracy. The point is to say, yeah in this case we are owning up to rejecting democracy.

@liquor_american @chrisgeidner

@DMTea Yeah I could have admitted all of that, if it was true, but it isn't, but you know you assume what you're going to assume.

This is social media after all.

I'm under no particular misbelief that folks posting things like yours are interested in reasonable discussion.

But you know, might as well put it out there just in case.

@liquor_american @chrisgeidner