US Politics
Hi, All,
I have genuinely high hopes for a productive conversation here on QOTO.
Putting aside the base hatred of things that are different (e.g., I hate President Obama because he has Black Skin; I hate President Trump because he has Orange Skin; I hate President Clinton because he is a Cisgendered horndog; I hate President Trump because he is a Cisgendered horndog...)
Is there a basis for all of the personality bashing other than the Left hates the Right and the Right hates the Left?
Is it naive to advocate for a Political Process that discusses policy affecting those being represented or do we simply invent technology that permits policy to be decided by determining who shouts the loudest?
US Politics
@williamlweaver Some of the hatred of Trump from the left is that he is majestically narcissistic, obscenely greedy, blatantly racist, and a pathological liar.
All politicians certainly spin things in their direction. Some lie to cover up their crimes. Trump lies for no reason about things that nobody else cares about: his inauguration was the biggest ever, the Boy Scouts praised him for his speech, Obama was born in Kenya, Muslims were cheering in New York after 9/11. Some of his lies, notably that he won the popular vote but a bunch of foreigners voted illegally, are fantastically dangerous to our democracy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/
It's hard to have a debate when the other side rejects basic, demonstrable facts and just makes stuff up.
Yes, we on the left think the GOP's policies are monstrous, but Trump as a person takes things to a whole new level. That's why a popular protest sign has been "Don't Normalize This".
US Politics
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I will accept your assessments of "majestically narcissistic, obscenely greedy, blatantly racist, and a pathological liar" at face value.
My question: Do you think these objectively vile human traits are being celebrated and amplified throughout the Trump Administration and converted into Policy (as they would during an Imperial Autocratic system of government)?
It is my honest belief that the outrageous buffoonery of President Trump is red meat to occupy his detractors while his pro-business, pro-individual, pro-rule of law administration executes a course correction from the Progressivism of previous administrations.
US Politics
@peterdrake @SecondJon @AnonByNature
*Child-Separation Policy* - something that should be vigorously debated. But I don't think this policy was enforced out of personal racism of the President.
Progressive: Lots of Rules, Lots of Exceptions
Conservative: Few Rules, Few Exceptions
Progressive: There should be executive-level exceptions for the unintended consequences of bad law
Conservative: There should be legislative-level corrections to the bad law to remove unintended consequences
US Politics
@peterdrake I may be wrong - a few things as I understand them:
• Repeating the president's statements and positions (true or not) is the sad job of a press secretary. I think the current and previous presidents had patterns of speaking falsehoods and all their press secretaries have been responsible for doubling down on these.
• I had read that the "child-separation" policy was for purposes to vet people and potentially stop child trafficking was not a new policy with this president, but pre-dated him.
• Rejection of dissent isn't new with him either, but seemed prevalent under the previous admin, and many many others. It doesn't seem he's done anything to stop dissent, he just argues back. Dissent seems to be thriving at this time.
US Politics
@SecondJon @williamlweaver @AnonByNature By "rejection of dissent" I mean his oft-repeated assertion that the press is the enemy of the people.
The left certainly hate Fox News (who have little more attachment to facts than Trump), and I imagine the right hates places like the Huffington Post. That's one thing. To imagine that CNN, the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. are all conspiring against him smacks of mental illness. To assert that a criticism of Trump is an attack on America is autocratic, anti-democratic, and extremely dangerous.
US Politics
@williamlweaver @SecondJon @AnonByNature @peterdrake
The interesting thing that I've observed is that conservatives seems to focus most on the left's reaction to his 'buffoonery' but not the broader reaction to his 'course corrections'.
US Politics
@williamlweaver @SecondJon @AnonByNature
Yes. His press secretaries regularly double-down on his bald-faced lies. He has certainly enacted policies consistent with his lies, racism, and rejection of dissent, like his voter fraud commission and his child-separation policy.
I don't see how his position that he is immune to prosecution is consistent with "rule of law".
Of course, I think previous administrations have been insufficiently progressive.