@AmpBenzScientist Yep. Delta Chat does it very literally. But really all IM is very close to email; it's just something about its appearance that leads us to treat it formally.

@worldsendless @AmpBenzScientist The expected low-latency of instant messaging is what drives the behavior and assumptions around it, I think.

@lispi314 @AmpBenzScientist funny thing is, in practice, the latency is pretty much the same for email (hence so much 2FA)

@worldsendless @AmpBenzScientist Yeah, the design of the SMTP protocol is *very* lenient by today's network reliability and uptime standards.

@worldsendless @AmpBenzScientist Personally I'd like to see more delay-tolerant message-oriented protocols. They're much easier to port onto meshnets & darknets.

@lispi314 @worldsendless XMPP has a solid foundation.

@lispi314 @worldsendless Briar is very good but I've never used it with a mesh net.

@AmpBenzScientist @worldsendless It's kind of designed to build its own over a number of different transports isn'it?

Regarding XMPP, is it not subject to the usual low-latency expectations common to most instant messaging protocols?

@lispi314 @worldsendless Yes to the first question. XMPP was used to control industrial equipment. It is rather robust but delays could cause problems.
At a certain point it is helpful to realize that the delays are the absence of a connection that is suitable for communication. Matrix had lowered bandwidth required for messaging to be well within dialup speeds.

@AmpBenzScientist @worldsendless The thing is that you can't really implement a mixnet resistant to observers without delays, which is why I care so much about the message-part as a self-contained unit and the delay-tolerance as an assurance that the protocol won't just keel over when I try to use it in such a way.

Low-latency networking inherently leaks a large amount of timing-related metadata in its operation that greatly facilitates deanonymization of users.

@lispi314 @worldsendless I guess there's always sending and receiving simple alive messages to the connections. It maintains that a link is established and also the delay time to expect. A simple protocol could be expanded upon by simple changes to work in these ways.

@AmpBenzScientist @worldsendless I suppose it could, though it's simpler and more convenient for it to have no real expectations related to timing. Much like email, for the most part.