@zleap @feditips To make that really true the multiple Fediverse flavor need to become WAY more userfriendly and hosting-friendly. Until then it's a solution for geeks and nerds.

@holzi @feditips Agreed, how can we make it easier. At the same time balance free speech / expression with safeguarding vulnerable groups

We can do this, we just need to convince users or potential users regarding that.?

@zleap @holzi @feditips teach users they are now their own censors and if they can’t handle it find a nanny node.

@Coyote @holzi @feditips

I think one of the reasons all this grooming takes place is because parents seem to use devices as electronic babysitting devices. Or are blind to the fact of the dangers, as they are so hooked and trusting of these platforms.

@zleap
What dangers you mean for grown ups? If you cant live with differences of opinions please commit a suicide as life will certainly kill you anyway.

@Coyote @holzi @feditips

@PawelK @Coyote @holzi @feditips

The laws targeting large social media platforms will eventually end up applying to the fediverse despite the fact we can just block those who post things we don't like, we need to ensure the laws that are made support and don't hinder our efforts.

Society looks for someone to blame,

@zleap
True but in ideal world govts overprotection of bigtech 1.0 should be killed too.

@Coyote @holzi @feditips

@PawelK @Coyote @holzi @feditips

Indeed facebook can take down images of tattooed nipples bit seems to fail at dealing with child abuse .

@zleap
Not only that. Many many more alike categories and they feed on theft. Twatters and yt and giggle are in it balls deep too.

@Coyote @holzi @feditips

@Coyote
Yep teach em responsibility and true life.

Btw platforms should retain 230. Publishers dont.

@holzi @feditips @zleap

@zleap
Remove safeguarding vulnerable groups and you solved this problem. Doing svg is called bizuo in chinese. Look it up.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

I agree we need to teach responsibility and hold users to account.

@zleap
Indeed. And fuck censorship cancel culture and rest of that rubbish.
Minus minors protections.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

Well how do we STOP minors signing up by lying about their age.

@zleap
One approach is do it at your own risk.
There could help some kind of smart age based captcha too etc. But this one is imperfect.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

So if a child of 10 says they are 13, by the time they are really 13 they are 16, so at the age of consent, by the time they are 16 they are 19 on the platform and therefore adults

It opens a real can of worms for the developers at least who will be blamed despite the child being in the wrong for lying about their age.

@zleap
Thats why i believe in captcha. Possibly with similar rules how we avoided kids drinking and smoking. It should be doable.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

I like the idea on Friendica where there is a overseer type account so a parent can be set up to oversee who / what a child is interacting with and step in

Put those tooks in place ,l when something goes wrong we can say the tools are there, use em

@zleap
Yes same on one math teaching account i always forget a name of.

It should be probably regulated per age.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

Not just for children though you could have accounts here for a company and one overseer or two that could stop anything sensitive or damaging being posted either intentionally, accidentally or maliciously

@zleap
Yes thats a good idea.

@holzi @feditips

@zleap
Like nuclear rockets keying with joint key.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

Yes, i guess this in some way is safeguarding users or company reputations.

@zleap
Good idea.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

Kids will find a way round that, usually with the help of adults,

@zleap
We got limited tools but law should help here.

@holzi @feditips

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

yes which is why we need to ensure laws back us up and empower us, and don't hinder these efforts with knee jerk laws that cause more problems.

@PawelK @holzi @feditips

We may have limited tools but we have lots of clever people with ideas and a passion to get it right,

what we lack is the funds to make it all work

@zleap
If idea is there youll find money.

@holzi @feditips

@zleap
Or rather money will find you.

@holzi @feditips

@zleap
Its noones duty to safeguard wellbeing of delusional.

@holzi @feditips

@zleap @feditips We do not need safeguarding of vulnerable groups we need to consequently remove offensive, hateful, misogynistic and racist posts. And we will need to acknowledge that rightwing idiots also can setup those platforms and that we need to block those, so they can live on their own in their small bubble of narrow-mindedness and hate. Hate is not an opinion and as such not protected. So there will ne a workflow on how and when to block instances from fediverse.

@zleap @feditips ... but that's a meta discussion as long as the access threshold to the Fediverse is way too high for most users.

@holzi @feditips

Agreed, so explain HOW the fediverse works to people and how they can block.

At the same time good education to tackle hate is also important.

@zleap @holzi @feditips

These are very good topics to address on the #SocialHub forum.

There are many issues where #fediverse can and should be improved. Fedi is still weak. I agree with Xanathon that the current take on things is too technical and geeky.

And I encourage people to join SocialHub community and raise their voice from different perspectives and background. For the purpose of broadening vision beyond tech stuffz I created the #FediverseFutures section.

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fediverse-futures-visions-dreams-feedback-wanted/1238

@humanetech @holzi @feditips

I am on there so need to login more often.

@zleap @holzi @feditips thanks. Yes, I think it is important. The community needs to be more active in coordinating things together. Currently there's too much fragmentation, and it is holding back a healthy evolution of fedi.

@humanetech @holzi @feditips

Indeed we need to be more like Big tech in terms of vision and direction while at the same time keep that autonomy and individual platform idea, but under an agreed set of standards I guess.

@humanetech @zleap @feditips Yes, absolutely! The fragmentation is a major part of the problem, since a lot of platform developers jealously do their thing without thinking about interoperability and the broader scope.

@holzi @humanetech @feditips

So how can we solve or resolve that ? How do we decide on a common set of values or goals we can get behind.

We need to make a good social and technical argument for certain features, perhaps

@zleap @holzi @feditips

There was an interesting and large fedi discussion, that is now a forum topic, about setting up a foundation that facilitates the coordination, community growth and provides a 'common voice' to the outside world.

See: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/what-would-a-fediverse-governance-body-look-like/1497/11

@humanetech @holzi @feditips

Thanks for this have sent the link to my self so will look from my main computer later as this netbook will struggle otherwise.

@holzi @zleap @feditips I'm working on a script to install pleroma. I'm not quite done with the instruction page, but it currently works if you have a domain name pointed at an Ubuntu based VPS from somewhere like Digital Ocean or Linode. You can see it at https://yarrps.xyz

@holzi @zleap

If you use managed hosting, anyone can set up a server, because the managed hosting service handles all the technical stuff.

Services like https://masto.host don't have a technical barrier.

Also, could you please be less inflammatory in your replies? Accusing others of arrogance and spreading false information in your very first post of someone else's thread is not helping to foster a friendly atmosphere.

@feditips @zleap I spoke from personal experience with mutliple developers from multiple Fediverse applications and I did not even mention conrete names, even if I could have. I encountered a very hostile "atmosphere" attitude from multiple Fediverse-related projects after simly reporting bugs in a neutral and technical manner. So I really cannot understand how you can accuse me of something like that when I'm just stating facts.

@feditips @zleap Aside from that: most trustworthy managed hosting for Fediverse flavours is grossly overpriced and that is another major hindrance on the spread of Fediverse.

And: The original statement was: "everyone can install and host a Fediverse flavor" and that simply is very wrong.