🇳🇱
the USA feels like a mental institution where virtually everyone has some sort of personality disorder... Anyone who thinks guns are the problem are completely disconnected with the reality, americans are so toxic and vile as a society I would expect them to be killing each other en masse regardless of access to guns or not.
@freemo Now make the transfer to the world. A lot of suffering going on, guns or no guns.
@admitsWrongIfProven transfer of what? There is plenty of suffering, the world is far from perfect. But as someone who travels the world more than most (living in a new country every other year or so, at least temporarily) I cant say i ever witnessed the level of psychosis as I do in the USA. Suffering doesnt equate to psychosis.
@freemo Hmmm, i only meant to say that the symptoms are worldwide, manifest themselves in the us a bit earlier. I probably did not explain myself very well.
Guns might not be the central issue here, even if handing them out like candy in the us might aggravate the issue we have.
I propose that the issue is that humans tend to react to stress in a manner well-suited to direct confrontation, while the problem we see is more systemic.
I suppose there is a bit of a spread of some of the psychosis.. but its very minimal compared to the USa.. In the USA its everyone with maybe 1% as an exception. In the netherlands I could spend a year meeting person and its a bad year if even one of them matches the typical psychosis I find in america.
We arent talking about "There are problems", we are talking about a very specific and toxic kind of psychosis, personality disorders.
I will say this though, while it isnt too common in much of the world it is fairly common (though not as bad as the USA) in english speaking countries, the UK is particularly bad, and a close second after the USA.
@freemo The question i would ask would be: "What makes this happen now, when we have the resources to do better?"
Well psychosis is infectious. When you spend your life growing up in it it becomes the norm and you adopt it. Its hardly a new thing, the same sort of extreme polarization and hysteria can be seen through a lot of the modern US history. Just look at the hysteria over communism during the cold war that lead to people like Lucy Ball being arrested for their opinions.
@freemo
Psychosis happening in the us, randomly, for no base reason? Spreading, for no additional reason but that it is infectious, right now, not ten or a hundred years previous?
Everything i heard about renewable energy points towards "we could". Everything i heard about nutrition points toward "we could feed everyone".
Why do we keep people in agony? Does it not make sense to seek a reason that causes people to behave this way, beyond "psychosis is infectious", infecting only one country, as far as i catch your drift?
Well no, but it is a long established part of the culture. The best objective way I could think of to indirectly measure it, based on the assumption that it is driven by tribal instincts to fight across polarized lines we can just look at congress.
See this animation as a reference: https://youtu.be/tEczkhfLwqM?si=JXKA6I8XDrlkvAcM
One can see the beginings of a divide noticably forming starting in early 1990, but then post 2001 the divide becomes very dramatic with almost no bipartisan agreement of any kind.
Both of these seem to coincide with wars, the gulf war of 1990's and the middle eastern wars (specifically afganastan and Iraq) from 911 onward.
So would seem the triggering event were our two major wars a decade apart.
@freemo Ah, so you are implying your political system is a problem of note.
I can see that, it might well be why the US have such a negative effect on the rest of the world.
The place most amenable for humans to exist, producing the conditions to destroy humanity. Q would be pleased.
No personality disorders can have psychosis as a comorbidity depending on its nature. But no not **all** personality disorder leads to psychosis.
That would be correct, it would be more linguistically accurate to say "causes this type of psychosis" or something to that effect
@freemo @Hyolobrika Are we still on track to search for the cause?
@freemo @Hyolobrika War happens, no fault in humans?
That is a relief. And i silly goose thought i should regulate my emotions!
@admitsWrongIfProven How is war "no fault in humans" ... who are committing these wars, cats?
@freemo If you name the war as the base cause, you are absolving humans and their behavioral patterns.
Not putting effort into cooperation, not investing the effort necessary for effective communication, these would be examples i could accept.
What are you trying to say? What is the base cause, a magical war that follows humans around because a god mandated it? Or is there something else, a flaw we should probably adress?
@admitsWrongIfProven The idea of a singular base cause for anything is a myth that just doesnt add up to reality.
There are major share holders int he responsibility for an event, a major watershed landmarks that mark some turning point. To to try to describe a singular point as the "fault" will have you failing at life every single time :) In truth the "fault" for something is an infinite string of events going back in time and following many different paths. Changing any number of events can steer the course to somewhere new and avoid some undesired event, no one of which is the singular "fault" on its own.
Hitler is often seen as the person we blame for the holocaust.. But we could also say his mother was to blame for having him as a child or raising him with the values he happened to have, or maybe his father, or grandparents, or maybe it was that bully in highschool that beat him up and he never got over.
@freemo So we should not attempt to understand?
Hitler was an individual caught up in events, and we are too.
You are right. It is not important to suss out any base cause, to save humanity. Events will play out, and that is it. Humanity is not necessary, and what happens will happen, and the universe will not be worse if we vanish.
Yes, i think i can be at peace with that.
By all means try to understand.. But if your trying to label one specific thing as the "fault" then you will fail to understand every time, since that isnt how reality works.
Instead of looking for fault look at every single player, especially yourself, and try to figure out what you could have done better to contribute to a better ending. Every single person involved will have some way they could have improved their contribution in some way, but the idea of "fault" particularly when its concentrated to a single point (or very few points) will not get you to where you want to be.
@freemo I absolutely mean it that way - it must be systemic, no single individual could just make the bad things that are happen.
What i was trying to say was more in the vein of "what systemic thing is it", and while wars are horrible, they are not a cause.
@admitsWrongIfProven Even systematically its not one systamatic thing...
Like take slavery, it was systematic once, no longer. But im sure it had a lasting effect that contributed to this, it certainly added a lot of hostility between minorities and whites. But would i say slavery having existing is the thing "at fault"... well no because i still maintain fault is manifold and it is just one among hundreds of systemic things that likely all contributed as well.
Really I think what you mean is more along the line sof "what are some of the biggest things we could change that would address this problem"
@Hyolobrika @freemo Diagnosis human. It is terminal.
I read "Guns" as "Gnus" and thought this was about Emacs.