+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
got to love the hypocrisy of modern leftist people. dividing people into groups where some have more worth than others (everything not male and white) and some are forbidden doing things.
it's racism/fascism sprinkled with pink glitter.
i could point out people here but that is bad style. their ability of maintaining the self image that they are _good people_ however is astounding. then, the nazis where perceiving themselves as good people too.
@bonifartius
> dividing people into groups
> stupid bad evil leftist people
@namark maybe it's me being a touchscreen peasant.. :> but i can't quite follow you.
if someone is making political statements, i don't need a radar for that, i don't have to know how they look. excluding and shitting on people just because they belong to a major group isn't better than if it happens to a minority. this kind of behaviour will only make things worse.
i don't fucking care what people _are_ as long as they act decent. many modern left behaviours explicitly go contrary to that.
🇳🇱
I think namarks point, and it is a valid one is ...
shitty left people are shitty, and
most left people are shitty
these are very different than
left people are shitty
With that said I took what you said (and I tend to voice a similar opinion) to just be more of an implied meaning. If I (and I presume you) say the left is shitty we arent trying to say 100% of the left, only that it is a pervasive problem with **most** of the left.
Similarly "McDonalds is shitty, they have trouble getting orders right" I dont think someone should or would imply that I am claiming that there is no well run mcdonalds anywhere on the earth that tends to get orders correct, only that most of the time with most mcdonalds it is and will be an issue.
@freemo @namark
in the end it is about shitty people, yes. a problem is that non-shitty left-people are forced to be shitty out of fear of being canceled.
there are many good ideas on the left, but with this climate of fear i can't support them as i view the behaviour of many as unethical. i can talk with right leaning people about those things and while we might not agree, it's not a BLOCKED&REPORTED&CANCELED-fest afterwards.
i think my pain point is that there is no centrism anymore where ideas a discussed and compromises are made. which is imho the only way to get things to get better, without violence.
I agree with and understand your perspective. All I was saying is that it appeared Namark was interpreting your language in a more liteal way than you were implying. Your fundamental argument isnt one I disagree with though.
I will add this though, you are describing the left mostly in america and while a majority of those on the left it isnt all of the left even there. In europe and the rest of the world the left, by in large, doesnt act that way.
All that said from an american perspective your perception is fair and one I agree with once you get past the literally language and realize your talking about "most of the left in america" and not "all left everywhere and all people on the left"
@freemo @namark i'm no native english speaker, so i am happy for your rephrasing as i've might have written things a bit too plain :)
i actually am in europe and have the feeling that these behaviours are crawling in from discourse in the USA, maybe currently in a more moderate form. things aren't discussed properly anymore, they are declared dogma.
@bonifartius
I live in europe and the USA, it is 100x worse in the us but you are right that to a lesser extent it is creeping into europe. Depends where though, in the UK its almost as bad as the USA, the Netherlands on the other hand seems to be fairing pretty well.
@namark