got to love the hypocrisy of modern leftist people. dividing people into groups where some have more worth than others (everything not male and white) and some are forbidden doing things.

it's racism/fascism sprinkled with pink glitter.

i could point out people here but that is bad style. their ability of maintaining the self image that they are _good people_ however is astounding. then, the nazis where perceiving themselves as good people too.

@bonifartius
> dividing people into groups
> stupid bad evil leftist people

@namark maybe it's me being a touchscreen peasant.. :> but i can't quite follow you.
if someone is making political statements, i don't need a radar for that, i don't have to know how they look. excluding and shitting on people just because they belong to a major group isn't better than if it happens to a minority. this kind of behaviour will only make things worse.
i don't fucking care what people _are_ as long as they act decent. many modern left behaviours explicitly go contrary to that.

@bonifartius

I think namarks point, and it is a valid one is ...

shitty left people are shitty, and
most left people are shitty

these are very different than

left people are shitty

With that said I took what you said (and I tend to voice a similar opinion) to just be more of an implied meaning. If I (and I presume you) say the left is shitty we arent trying to say 100% of the left, only that it is a pervasive problem with **most** of the left.

Similarly "McDonalds is shitty, they have trouble getting orders right" I dont think someone should or would imply that I am claiming that there is no well run mcdonalds anywhere on the earth that tends to get orders correct, only that most of the time with most mcdonalds it is and will be an issue.

@namark

@freemo @bonifartius My point is that left does not exist other than what you define it as. Grouping people based on a vague political statement is no different than grouping them based on color of the skin, clothes or length of nails. You imply that the world is divided into people who are left and who are not left, and you have a natural leftdar, even more, everyone has a natural leftdar: are they *some superficial characteristic*? - bash!
This is the curial fallacy imo. The tactic you employ to justify yourself here is common to the ideas that you are trying to criticize. "They bad, they discriminate, so I discriminate them". There is no they. You can criticize ideas without demonizing people, even those who at some point might in some ways appear to hold them, and trigger your enemydar. In this particular case your are criticizing something that you immediately engage in yourself.

The all vs most is a distraction. Talking about a McDonalds you will be talking in specific context in which McDonalds is a well defined dichotomy. We collectively ensure it is well defined, by not allowing any random thing to be deemed McDonlads by any random party. That is the fundamental thing that you require before you even begin with any of the loosey-goosey statistics.

I dare, anyone willing, to define the dichotomy of the left based on mathematical principles: define the binary relation, and demonstrate that it's reflexive, symmetric and transitive, without turning it into a tautology. In other words - show me your glorious any% accurate leftdar.

@namark

Not everything that is definable need be definable by mathematical principles.

Two important points here.

1) There are universally accepted definitions for what constitutes the left

2) Even if we accepted the definition of the left as arbitrary the fact remains that the vast majority of people self identify as left or right, so we can also use ones self-identification as the left as its own metric.

@bonifartius

@freemo @namark my limited life experience tells me that if someone declares _being_ left, it's show, will be thrown overboard as convenient, and it's likely a bully. people who act decent don't have to declare moral superiority and people aren't absolved of being shit by declaring the "correct" political alignment.