+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
@markusl
regarding the mrna/vector vaccines:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8538446/
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abf1771
i just don't trust these vaccines, they feel like hybris. i'm told "mrna can't get integrated to dna", a few months later a mechanism is found, only by chance the vaccine hasn't got the right primer.
injecting mrna which let my cells produce an unknown amount of something hampering dna repair also sounds like a terrible idea.
now they plan mandates with this concoctions. of cause without having any if the inactivated virus vaccines here, like e.g. the chinese or valnevas.
i won't put the mrna stuff into me. the classic technology is proven to work. i'm vaccinated against all kinds of stuff and have no problem with that.
🇳🇱
You have vaccine options that arent RNA. It is true RNA treatments are much newer and that might make you worry. So why not just take one of the vaccines that are a traditional vector instead?
@freemo
vector also has the problem of being an active substance and is a quite new technology.
i just want a load of dead whole virus, if i get vaccinated. might even be better wrt mutations than the spike only vaccines as other parts of the hull are learnt by the immune system.
there are the chinese ones with WHO approval which are used in many countries, there is valneva from europe, but both wont get approval until spring next year. while the new technology mrna/vector gets the fast lane.
i have the feeling that people are pushed to get the new technology vaccines. for whatever reason.
@bonifartius
Im not sure how you can say a vector is active. Its just a part of the outer shell of the virus as opposed to the whole virus.
@markusl @iron_bug @zleap @Nobody@freeatlantis.com
@bonifartius @markusl @iron_bug @zleap @Nobody@freeatlantis.com
The new tech vaccines are much easier to make with quicker turn arounds. If there is any push its to try to get the public to accept new vaccines with minimal turn around to fight pandemics
@freemo
the chinese vaccines were ready at around the same time the western vaccines were. i think it's ill advised to just use something because it seems more easy or quick. it's a whole new technology which should be handled accordingly.
have you ever seen a vaccine where it's "ok" that there are things like young people getting heart problems? sure, anaphylaxis always can happen. the things we see now are a whole different class of problems. things get under-reported. i know personally: woman where the fetus stopped growing, thyroid problems (2x), ear ringing & constant bowl problems. all within temporary closeness to the vaccination. sure, those are anecdotes, but none of those got reported to my knowledge so that it could be even considered for being a problem. it's always "not the vaccine", even if that would be for someone else to decide.
it's just not really furthering my trust in the system. the science isn't to blame.
@bonifartius
There have been only 5 deaths out of 400 million doses. Those 5 deaths are the young people you speak of. Yea these numbers arent just normal for vaccines but are on thr lower side.
The vaccines have demonstrated themselves, at least so far, to be perfectly safe.
@bonifartius @markusl @iron_bug @zleap @Nobody@freeatlantis.com
Also you knowing people who happened to have random problems that had nothing to do with the vaccine isnt much of any argument. Alsmot everyone is vaccinated so you cant assume everytime someone has a medical problem its related to the vaccine
@bonifartius @markusl @iron_bug @zleap @Nobody@freeatlantis.com
Also doctors are required my law to report. All issues even when unrelated to thevaccine must be reported. So if thry went to a doctor it was reported.
@freemo
i'm just not sure how well this is done in practice. here in germany it's said that a report takes around 30 minutes to fill out. that's 30 unpaid minutes. doctors will think thrice if they do the report, either in their spare time or in the time where they could treat another patient, helping someone else _and_ making money.
it's just an imperfect system.
that we can't know any long term problems is by nature of the vaccines being new. saying, with a new technology nonetheless, that there never are long term problems is just bad science. we never rolled out this method to such a big population, and it's radically different from injecting inactive antigens.
it feels like extrapolating from coal power plants to nuclear reactors. never hat a meltdown with coal! ;)
i know that there probably are many things more dangerous for me than the vaccine. i just have a severe dislike of getting pushed into things, and a severe dislike of the wrong simplifications and hype about the new vaccines. might be completely harmless, might not. don't tell me it's safe if one obviously can't say it is as one can't speed up time. other vaccines were years in testing before approved.
