@swiley I have no idea what Fauci said, nor do I care what he or any one specific doctor says. I care about the scientific consensus which has herd immunity well above 80%

@freemo Either way, the vaccine is not as effective as Ivermectin and monoclonal antibodies. It's orders of magnitude more deadly than every vaccine we've had, and for younger boys it's more deadly than covid itself.
It's not a good treatment.

@swiley Its many times more effective than Ivermectin (which may be part of a treatment as well, assuming the vaccine was already tried)... you sound like an uninformed dunce honestly, almost no one has died from the vaccine, you are spewing anti-science, anti-fact bullshit. You do you, but you've lost the respect of myself and so many others (who continually keep reporting you) with this anti-intellectual nonsense that even a few minutes of research could easily disprove if you didnt have your head up your ass.

If I sound mad, I am, because aside from just costing hundreds of thousands of people their lives by spreading this bullshit misinformation, you are also now costing people their freedoms as a consequence because people are so desperate to try to find a way to save those lives.

@freemo
>almost no one has died from the vaccine
This is clearly wrong. There are enough deaths from the heart problems alone that they're investigating it.

@swiley thus the word almost.. only 2 people died from blood clots, they investigated it. Of those who got myocarditis so far 0 have died, only 2 wound up in the ICU..

Enough got symptoms of myocarditis to investigate it, true, but 100% of people survived. If anything it demonstrates the safety of vaccines and how even symptoms with no deaths is enough to trigger a full investigation.

@freemo There have been thousands of deaths reported to VARES, a service run by the CDC. Where is your data coming from?

@swiley See this is why you are too uneducated on the subject to open your mouth and why you would fail the above test.

VARES requires doctors, by law, to report any death even those not related to covid, that occur within 14 days after a vaccine, any death at all. The death reports in VAREs does **not** represent death due to the vaccine. These deaths are followed up and investigated to see if any of them wind up being caused by the vaccines and out of those investigations there are very very few deaths.

Please stop saying shit you **think** is true but lack even basic training or education to understand the nonsense coming out of your mouth. If you dont understand a topic dont try to "educate" people with misinformation, educate yourself first.

@freemo Ok.
Regardless, I'm not taking it after that mandate.

@swiley I have no issue with you protesting the mandate, im against it myself. But considering your the reason we have the mandate and the number of people who are dead because of the "game" you played that doesnt really earn you any respect back in my eyes.

If you really cared about the mandate but wanted to do the right thing you'd get the vaccine anonymously. It would serve the same purpose in terms of protesting without having the side effect of killing people.

@freemo No. I'm absolutely not cooperating. They can figure something else out now.

@swiley Of course not, pretty much what I'd expect from someone who acted the way you did throughout COVID so far...

@freemo I would have kept it to myself if they didn't push. The only politics I ever spoke publicly about were software related.
I was listening to the authorities in the beginning and being extremely careful, I was one of the most careful people I know. I didn't leave the house for months during March/April and took my temperature every day. I washed my hands and wore masks and practiced social distancing.
At some point it became clear that people were lying and this was a massive power grab.

@swiley You've been talking about COVID conspiracy nonsense for weeks now.

Even now if you wanted to complain about the policies or the mandates I'd be 100% cheering behind you. But thats not what you've been doing.

Sorry but shitty mandates that are a violation of rights doesnt mean you start getting up and lying about medical advice that can kill if a naive person thinks you know what your talking about. If you wanted a leg to stand on then them passing those mandates should have resulted in your sticking to protesting those mandates, not making up lies about COVID in "protest".

@freemo
>You've been talking about COVID conspiracy nonsense for weeks now.
That began immediately after the mandate. Like you say: I have no formal training in any of this so I wasn't comfortable talking about it and wasn't going to as long as I was left alone. Now I'm being harassed so I'm going to talk about it until the harassment ends.

@swiley Again, if you were talking out against the mandate then I'd have no issue with you doing that.. but the whole "In protest of them forcing people to take the vaccine I'm going to go out of my way to lie to people and give knowingly false medical advice that might kill them to protest my rights being taken away" is a pretty damn shitty cop out.

@freemo I'm not convinced what I'm saying is wrong.
The behavior will continue to get worse until the Federal Government fucks off.

@swiley Your statements are extremely trivial to disprove. But whether you know your wrong and spreading misinformation, or you simply know your uneducated and spreading uneducated crap, your still a bad person no matter which of the two it is.

Your behavior is exactly what forced the federal government to do what it did. Yes its wrong and yes you should protest it. But not by being part of the problem.

@freemo I feel like being quiet is how we got here so I'm not going to do that until they leave us alone.

@freemo @swiley

>considering your the reason we have the mandate and the number of people who are dead because of the "game"
This is the fundamental problem with your logic. You think covid deaths are caused by anything other than covid itself. You think human beings are responsible for the actions of a virus, simply because they insufficiently combat it.
This is communist logic, where not preventing something and causing something are considered rhetorically identical.

@Eris

Thats like me handing you a glass of poison and lying by saying "hey here is some water" and then when you die going "thats not my fault, thats communist logic. The only thing that killed him is the poison itself".

When you lie and people believe your lies and that results in their death, yes, you have a hand to play in that as far as I'm concerned.

@swiley

@freemo @swiley
>Thats like me handing you a glass of poison and lying by saying "hey here is some water" and then when you die
Who is handing you a glass of poison in this metaphor? Who is lying?

@freemo @swiley You keep alluding to "lies" and "misinformation" but never say what they are.

@Eris

I already explicitly gave one example. The lie that the VARES confirms thousands of vaccine deaths, which is explicitly false.

@swiley

@freemo @swiley
>The lie that the VARES confirms thousands of vaccine deaths, which is explicitly false.
That's not a lie. First of all, ev eryone who says it actually believes it, which makes them at worst wrong, not lying.
Second, it's true by the standards of statistical analysis that has been setup for COVID. If you want to call this a lie, you have to also call 99% of covid cases lies.

@freemo @Eris @swiley Holy shit this is a hilariously wrong take. Holy fuck my dude, calm down and get it together.

@D00B @freemo @Eris @swiley how is it wrong?

@bot @Eris @freemo @swiley yes

@D00B @Eris @freemo @swiley yes what? Literally anyone can make a report on VAERS, they are not necessarily accurate or factual.

@freemo @swiley Yes friend if you are worried about VAERS containing false positives, you should look up how they are defining "covid deaths". Any person who dies, for any reason, but has a coronavirus positive diagnosis, is counted as a covid death. Keep in mind too that before the tests were common, simply having symptoms like coughing or a runny nose could be enough to get a positive diagnosis. Thank you friend.

@bebe @freemo @swiley Exactly. You can't eat your cake and have it too. Either VAERS deaths AND covid deaths are bullshit, or both are true. Choose one frame, don't flip flop between both to suit your interests.

@Eris Sorry it doesnt work that way... There is no "COVID deaths list"... there are many different lists and each one you must understand the criteria. There is VARES, there is the CDC preliminary, there is the CDC finalized, there are doubple blind sampled studies, and many hundreds if not thousands of different lists.

The problem with not being educated on the topic are exactly these sort of inane simplifications.

@freemo
>Sorry it doesnt work that way... There is no "COVID deaths list"...
What is CNN putting on its chyron every day then?
>The problem with not being educated on the topic are exactly these sort of inane simplifications.
The problem is that you think that is only happening on one side.

@Eris CNN along with any mainstream media, is not a scientific source. They, like fox news or any other media, spew nonsense.

@freemo Yet you aren't calling them murderers. Curious.

@Eris I'm not? I've called CNN murderers plenty of times.

@freemo This thread seems pretty one-sided to me bro. The "vaccine misinformation" is causing mass death, but the covid misinformation is irrelevant to you.

@Eris This thread is one-sided. It addresses one issue with one side. Is there some rule that says every thread must call out every issue on every side at all times?

Anti-vaxers being idiots dont get a pass just because CNN are idiots for the other side. ?You being an idiot is not excusable if other people who disagree with you somewhere are also idiots. (general you here, not you specifically)

@freemo
>Is there some rule that says every thread must call out every issue on every side at all times?
Yes. People deduce your position based on the arguments you present. If you present one-sided arguments, your position is one-sided in practice. Alluding to things you do which no one here sees is just an attempt to maintain credibility.
>Anti-vaxers being idiots dont get a pass just because CNN are idiots for the other side.
Of course they do. IF you give one a pass, you have to give the other a pass. If you criticize one, you have to criticize the other. If you are inconsistent on this it signals dishonesty to people.
Either being an idiot is okay or it isn't.

@Eris People deduce your opinion based on the comments you make over time. No one in their right mind looks at one isolated comment about one thing and assume that is the whole of their opinion. They would look at my history of comments, discussions, and ask questions and then gather the bigger picture to judge me.

IF you are drawing conclusions about my stance from one post on one specific aspect of a topic then you arent really forming a complete picture.

@freemo For clarity, I don't think either can be said to be causing death. That's just not how reality works. The disease and the vaccine are causing deaths, not people or their words.

@Eris The fallacy in your logic is that only one thing "causes" something.. Not how it works. Any event is caused by a countless number of contributing factors. If i lick a doorknob and die of COVID you can say that COVID caused the death because if it didnt exist I wouldnt have died. You can also say licking the doorknob caused my death because had I not licked the doorknob I would not have died either.

@freemo
>The fallacy in your logic is that only one thing "causes" something.. Not how it works.
That's actually exactly how it works. All responsibility for anything ultimately falls on one specific set of shoulders. That's how responsibility works.
> If i lick a doorknob and die of COVID you can say that COVID caused the death because if it didnt exist I wouldnt have died. You can also say licking the doorknob caused my death because had I not licked the doorknob I would not have died either.
COVID killed you. Simple as.

While I'm not educated on this topic, everything you have posted makes sense to me.

@Eris @bebe @freemo @swiley anyone can file a report on VAERS. You don’t know what you’re talking about, as usual.

@bot

Yes they can, No one said anything to the contrary.

@Eris @bebe @swiley

@freemo @bot @bebe @swiley That's a dumb whore who contradicts me in any thread I participate in because she doesn't like me. Don't feed her attention thanks.

@Eris @freemo @bebe @swiley cry harder nigger.

@freemo @Eris @bebe @swiley the death tally is not based on raw VAERS data. Eris is implying that one being manipulated or inaccurate implies that the other is also, which isn’t necessarily true (they’re both fucked imo).

@bebe

Each listing of covid numbers also has its own definition of what qualifies as a covid death. Thi s is nothing unusual. The problem is when laypeople try to take those lists and make statements like "these are the number of people who died from covid". The collection of the datais fair honest and transparent, people are just too stupid to understand what the data means.

Data scientists use the list of data with an understanding of how the deaths are defined. This is why we almost always use lists that are from double blind samples that actually sequence the genome or clearly test for it in some way.

@swiley