@skells Dont you need to also add in the uncertainty in my claim that the vaccine is useless then?

@freemo true, which leaves us at a wash.

interventions with high uncertainty add noise

@skells the claim here is not that ther eis high uncertainty but relatively low uncertainty.

The certainty that vaccines are safe is relatively high, and its safety is extraordinary high as well (5 deaths out of 400+ million doses)

The certainty that the vaccine is useless is moderate. the evidence is fairly suggestive that it is useless right now against delta, but its highly preliminary and stands a good chance of changing. so the certainty on this side is middling at best.

So from these two factors one would conclude the overwhelmingly obvious choice is to get the vaccine.

@freemo what evidence do you have for long term safety of the vaccine?

@skells The same evidence we have for all vaccines that over time have proven to be true. Over a year of data on 400+ million doses without the slightest hint of anything suspicious. As we know from vaccines in the past, and drug testing in general, this results in extremely high confidence in its safety into the future.

@freemo @skells dead men tell no lies... https://www.habingfamily.com/obituary/michael-mike-granata

@js290

A man who didnt die of COVID happened to get a COVID shot before dying... how is that important?

When there are 400 million shots delivered one **Expects** a good number of people who were going to die of unrelated causes to have recently been vaccinated. To conclude that one, two, or a hundred cases that fit that pattern infers that COVID vaccine was the cause is just completely uneducated. Thats not how any objective person assesses risk.

@skells

@freemo @skells "Risk isn't just about the probabilities, it's also about the consequences..." https://youtu.be/YjvRRy-rm6E?t=1000

@js290

Indeed, and when a total of 5 people died of COVID vaccines, all associated with a single brand and 0 people on other brands, the consequences are non-existant in any practical sense.

@skells

@freemo @skells https://noagendasocial.com/@noagendashownoteslinks/107287371420257589

@js290

Where is the study he did where he ruled out the cause being a COVID infection or where he shows that the athletes were all recently vaccinated.

Do you really believe such poorly presented evidence with literally no rigor or investigation? Shocker, but during a pandemic more people die than usual, to assume its a vaccine with no data or investigation of any kind is completely idiotic.

@skells

@js290

Many of these cases also sound like textbook Post-acute COVID-19 syndrome... again with some moron just saying "hey look i have a random list of people who fainted" doesnt go far to make a case of anything other than he doesnt know the first thing as to how to actually test a theory and prove he might be right.

@skells

@freemo @skells got studies on "post-acute COVID-19 syndrome"? sounds made up...

@js290

Uh huh... an actual condition proven time and time again in various replicated and peer-reviewed studies sounds "made up"... but a random list with no scientific rigor or investigation of some random people who happened to faint, absolutely must be because of COVID vaccine.

You might want to work a bit on your formal logic skills there buddy.

@skells

@freemo
1) There is plenty of evidence that vaccines are doing harm. We can disagree on the interpretation of that evidence but there is plenty to be concerned about.

2) The mechanisms which cause long term damage don't necessarily show up in the short term. It took decades for the results of radiation to play out in nuclear researchers.

@skells

1) no there isnt, unless you define evidence as "stupid shit people make up". Chances are you call things evidence that doesnt remotely resemble evidence.

2) radiation is something completely new. vaccines are not new, and the RNA approach to vaccines are not your only option (there are classical vaccines). So no this is false, classical vaccines have been around for decades and we know well the risk. Yes there is some very small chance something novel could arrise. But we have done this so many times with so many vaccines and never had a problem the chance is vanishingly slim

@freemo it's very easy to hold your position when those who disagree with your are defined as stupid

I won't argue about this with you.

@skells incidentally it is also easy for me to hold my position when the people disagreeing with me are literally and actually stupid. Generally stupid people do a poor job at making a compelling case.