you may get the pound of flesh from HR but then literally nobody is ever going to speak to you again
🇳🇱
Is the fact that he was Muslim relevant at all though? Seems the same anecdote leaving that out would have been just as true and relevant.
Ahh, perhaps, sure. Is there reason to think that was the case here though? Did the guy get reprimanded specifically for being prejudice?
@waltercool
Me too had its place in the legitimate cases. the problem with everything feminist is they take it too far and do more harm than good despite having good intent.
i saw a handful of these and they had a general pattern of "statute of limitations ago, now that this guy has been promoted, this guy touched me a long time ago and should be punished for it now." and you look in to the case notes and there is often like, zero attempts to resolve the issue for ten years.
in the vic case the woman claims to have been raped but then literally goes back to hang out with her alleged rapist again later that same day and hung out with him alone for several hours. i don't know a single damn woman who gets raped and then willingly goes and hangs out with her rapist two hours later.
i dunno. i would feel better if they were timely. some of them are really just stupid, like the ones where there's video footage proving they were not molested but we still have to sit through the harpies guilty until proven guilty'ing even in the face of literal CCTV proving it never happened
The problem with rape is that there is almost never any evidence. So we really cant judge if a claim of rape is true or not. We cant assume its valid, we cant assume its not. What we can judge is if society reacts based on evidence or not and my main criticism of #metoo is that usually an accusation, even without evidence, is enough to ruin someones life. This is a valid concern even if most accusations happen to be true, because we shouldnt be ruining lives over things we cant verify.
If thats the definition of rape then I'm one of the worse sexual offenders around.
this is true. As I said the issue with #MeToo is not that women are lying or telling the truth. Its that we treat it as the truth without evidence.
As per Occam's Razor, when a woman accuses a man of having sexually harassed her, the most straightforward and therefore most likely explanation is that he did indeed sexually harass her.
The consideration that she's lying requires further explanation as to why she would have done that.
Extraordinary claims (such as "she's lying about sexual harassment to get him in trouble") require extraordinary evidence.
The same goes for any other kind of claim of harassment, such as racist or homophobic harassment.
@freemo @waltercool
this means the claim against an innocent requires evidence.
@freemo @waltercool
People started accusing people out of fear of getting accused themselves. Go with the crowd, because you don't want to act suspicious.
Nah the new due process is "Guilty until proven... ya know what, just guilty"
i think bongo mentality is just not capable of executing higher order logic. they unironically use lines like "why would a woman lie" so i don't think it occurs to them sociopaths exist.
"Oh wow, look at all these allegations flying to and fro! Maybe it's ALL bullshit?"
Pesky women, always taking their desire to end sexual harassment too far!
Yea, i mean, when you start accusing people of rape who didnt actually rape you, literally, then it is taking it too far. This shouldnt be a hard concept to understand.
And you have proof of that happening on a significant scale, i.e. more than a few unproven anecdotes?
* technically his case hasn't been adjudicated because it's still held up in appeals, but i watched the depositions for the case and her story makes no sense
Before I Google all those names, are they cases of unproven rape allegations, or cases of proven-false rape allegations?
@freemo @waltercool
Is this the person you're talking about?
Because given the unlikelihood of *one* allegation being fake, the combined unlikelihood of this many allegations all being fake is extremely slim.
this number rises to around 10% when including cases where the woman confessed to fraud (they do this a lot to get out of trouble as teenagers who are trying to hide a relationship and deflect by calling it a rape and then recanting later). it goes up to about 30% if you include the least strict ruleset which involves the cases just being declared dead on arrival for having nothing investigatable or the accusor just refuses to testify at all
@freemo @waltercool
There is about as much evidence of false accusations as there are of true ones... The bulk of cases in either category tend to be scarce when it comes to evidence. That is the very problem with treating them as true in the first place.
And I'm saying that as per Occam's Razor, the more likely thing is that the allegation is true. That's why it's normal for people to consider it true regardless of whether it can be proven in court and turned into an official punishment.
That's bullshit, just look at the number of men out there who screech "lying bitch" as soon as a man they like gets accused.
Whether the general public tends to believe the woman or the man has lots of complex reasons. I'm just giving you my reasoning as to why I'd rather believe the woman / the racial minority / the gay person.
to be clear I agree with you here. Assuming a woman who accuses someone of rape is lying is equally as reprehensible as assuming they are telling the truth.
One should not draw conclusions based on a lack of evidence.
This is true. PArticularly in the USA where not taking a side is effectively the same thing as being an enemy of both sides.
Actually ocams razor would imply we should not assume an accusation is true or false and assume that it is unknowable... Ocams razor dictates we must make the choice that makes the least assumptions, therefore we are dictated by ocams razor to not assume a claim to be true or false without evidence.
@socjuswiz @waltercool
Exactly and agreed. There is no logic and simply understanding human nature and its tendency to be petty should make it obvious that most of the time people lie. Assuming honesty with no evidence is a leap in any scenario.
The fact that a woman claims that a man harassed her requires an explanation.
Since he cannot have both harassed and not harassed her, there are broadly only two possible explanations:
- He did it (men do that commonly for pleasure, no further explanation needed)
- She's lying (why should she, further explanation is needed)
My whole argument is that **some** women who claim they were raped lie, therefore we should not assume they are telling the truth without evidence.
What is more likely: That 100% of all women have told the truth and none of them ever lie or...
Some, maybe even most, have told the truth and that some of them have lied.
occam's razor was developed to select formulas that address the outcome of observations of physical experiments.
@freemo @waltercool
@icedquinn @socjuswiz @freemo This is the sole problem on metoo. Whatever female does is fine, but whatever male does is sexual harassment (even if true or false).
At my country is well known if some women denounce their husband for violence, then police reach automatically and the guy is supposed guilty unless prove innocence. If some male denounce their wife for violence, police will laugh and likely nothing will happen if trial happens.
Same can applied in many things, like teen rape accusations. If the accused is male, likely guilty and long jail time, if the accused is female, likely nothing or easy bail out.
As far as im concerned there is plenty of sexism in both directions. More than enough abuse for being male or female. You can view either as the victim from the right perspective and neither viewpoint is entierly wrong.
Men commonly sexually harass women, that is literally not even up for debate lol.
I'm removing myself from this discussion because arguing against three people at once is tiring, especially since I think all three of you lack even the most basic understanding of sexism / social context.
I would imagine all three of us have the same impression of you as completely lacking even the most basic understanding of sexism / social context.
if she says yes its a yes if she says no then stop immediately. end of.
all that other crap about "i'm gonna say yes but i dont actually mean it and/or i did mean it when i said it but i reserve the right to retroactively have been abused" can fuck right off
@socjuswiz @waltercool
@waltercool