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The thing about vaccines are, even if they dont work (and they probably dont at this point with delta) that the risk from them is so extraordinarily low that there is no reason not to get them.
You are at more risk of harm on your drive to the vaccine location than you actually are by getting the vaccine.
total worldwide death toll to date from the vaccine.... 5 people... 5 people out of over 400 million doses. I think the vaccine is useless but I still got vaccinated simply because there is no good argument not to.
@freemo you think the vaccine is useless?
@skells Based on most recent data, yes. If you had asked me a few weeks ago I would have said no.
@freemo with this logic it wouldn't take much uncertainty in risk to justify not taking the vaccine, via negativa
@skells Dont you need to also add in the uncertainty in my claim that the vaccine is useless then?
@freemo true, which leaves us at a wash.
interventions with high uncertainty add noise
@skells the claim here is not that ther eis high uncertainty but relatively low uncertainty.
The certainty that vaccines are safe is relatively high, and its safety is extraordinary high as well (5 deaths out of 400+ million doses)
The certainty that the vaccine is useless is moderate. the evidence is fairly suggestive that it is useless right now against delta, but its highly preliminary and stands a good chance of changing. so the certainty on this side is middling at best.
So from these two factors one would conclude the overwhelmingly obvious choice is to get the vaccine.
@freemo what evidence do you have for long term safety of the vaccine?
@skells The same evidence we have for all vaccines that over time have proven to be true. Over a year of data on 400+ million doses without the slightest hint of anything suspicious. As we know from vaccines in the past, and drug testing in general, this results in extremely high confidence in its safety into the future.
@freemo @skells dead men tell no lies... https://www.habingfamily.com/obituary/michael-mike-granata
A man who didnt die of COVID happened to get a COVID shot before dying... how is that important?
When there are 400 million shots delivered one **Expects** a good number of people who were going to die of unrelated causes to have recently been vaccinated. To conclude that one, two, or a hundred cases that fit that pattern infers that COVID vaccine was the cause is just completely uneducated. Thats not how any objective person assesses risk.
Where is the study he did where he ruled out the cause being a COVID infection or where he shows that the athletes were all recently vaccinated.
Do you really believe such poorly presented evidence with literally no rigor or investigation? Shocker, but during a pandemic more people die than usual, to assume its a vaccine with no data or investigation of any kind is completely idiotic.
Many of these cases also sound like textbook Post-acute COVID-19 syndrome... again with some moron just saying "hey look i have a random list of people who fainted" doesnt go far to make a case of anything other than he doesnt know the first thing as to how to actually test a theory and prove he might be right.
Uh huh... an actual condition proven time and time again in various replicated and peer-reviewed studies sounds "made up"... but a random list with no scientific rigor or investigation of some random people who happened to faint, absolutely must be because of COVID vaccine.
You might want to work a bit on your formal logic skills there buddy.
@freemo @skells "Risk isn't just about the probabilities, it's also about the consequences..." https://youtu.be/YjvRRy-rm6E?t=1000