@zleap

When vaccines work they are usually great at stopping the spread. For the original strain of covid, for example, it both stopped symptoms **and** stopped the spread.

The new variants however (such as delta, the most prevalent one, and omicron) it is either completely in effective or significantly less effective (hard to draw firm conclusions off what studies we have). The point is, its not effective at stopping the spread because the spike protein it encodes for is different in the variants and thus the antibodies are ineffective to a significant degree (if not completely).

@khaosgrille

@zleap

yea masks im not sure about. The data in them are questionable in either direction so we can only speculate about how or if they are effective.

I think if you are very strict in how you use them they probably help, but most people, almost no one, handles mask with the level of rigor needed for them to be effective.

@khaosgrille

@zleap @freemo how would u argue against this study for example https://www.pnas.org/content/118/49/e2110117118?

ofc it is not randomised but it is hard to do that with a pandemic disease

@khaosgrille

If it isnt randomized how does it address the points I made at all?

@zleap

@freemo @zleap they take in real world scenarios. they expect people to touch their face, wear the mask wrong, not everyone using one, etc. the study addresses all those points

@khaosgrille

Ok then ill have to read, my cursory glance didnt seem to see anything about face touching in their model.

Though regardless if its non-randomized observational study it still has the underlying issue of confounding and thus the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. But ill give it a full read to give a more proper answer

@zleap

@freemo @zleap tbh not sure if i misunderstood some part regarding leakage in the study
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@khaosgrille

At a cursory glance i took leakage to mean particles that escape out of the side. Not the effects of people taking off their mask and touching it and their face constantly.

@zleap

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