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@admitsWrongIfProven @tio @roko
As you point out the issue isnt about defederation at all, its about the gossip, manipulation, and lies that results in uninformed defederation.
You pointed out one example already, where a group of people with the clear intent to spread rumors without any evidence were able to get QOTO removed from the official list, but it goes much deeper than that. That same misinformation has gotten quite a few servers defamed for things that never happened.
The reason, among other things, is that when an instance hears a rumor they defederate and stic those rumors in the "Reasons" column with no transparency or evidence, others pick up on this, rinse repeat. They have used some pretty nasty tactics to make this more prolific too. For example they have hordes of single user instances that defederate then maintain lists that list instances based on how many instances defederate them. So they are able to say "look this instance is in the top 10 most defederated" but leave out the fact that they are counting single user instances and in fact they arent really very defederated at all.
What is needed less than the collaboration between instances the UFoI provides is the **transparency** on why defederation takes place with evidence and a chance for the other side to speak their piece. This way defederation can be informed.
Yea, without UFoI the only way you can garuntee you and your friends all communicate is if you all join free speech servers (servers that dont defederate from anyone).
The nice thing about UFoI is it solves the problem while still allowing instance admins to defederate from bad actors.
From what I understand, #UFoI doesn't say anything about how an instance should defederate and it is left up to the individual instances to decide for themselves, just that they should keep the federation open for other #UFoI members, right?
Thats more or less accurate. Outside of the UFoI instances can choose how they federate. Inside the UFoI they should federate.
If an instance in the UFoI shows itself to be a bad actor and worthy of defederation then there is a transparent process centered around due process that is used to eject a bad actor instance from the UFoI at which point its members can decide to defederate if they wish to.
Yeah, so far this sounds like a much better approach than the current way of doing things which is not transparent at all.
Let your instance admin know your opinion and see if he might consider joining then.
This is where #UFoI comes in, its a group of instances that I know for sure will be federated with each other, so I can just ask my friends to join one of the instances listed there.
Wait until your instance from that select group may not be on par with the rest and they kick you out. I don't like when they make these little groups of friends. This is entirely different from what I first thought the fediverse is. The fact that you have to create such groups tells me that the fediverse is a bunch of facebooks and twitters and they use their power (many times the user count) to bully the other small instances. The fediverse should have been about a protocol that allows any instance to communicate with any other. The moment instances stop federating with other instances, this protocol is censored, broken, incomplete, nontransparent. And a mess in general.I know, I'm now realizing that fediverse is not decentralized enough to make a real difference. We're now talking about instance admins fighting each other over disagreements, but wait until corporations begin to pour money into it and create instances of their own, that's when this power difference becomes obvious and by then it'll be too late.
Once a better p2p social network becomes viable then I'll be among the first to jump ship, we need to put power back in the hands of individual users, not a small number of admins or corporate entities who're capable of running massive servers.
Say if I joined an instance and my friend joined another, if one of our instances block the other then we can't communicate anymore, this is a big problem with defederation. I can of course ask my friends to join the same instance I'm on, but this will lead to centralization which is bad for fedi. This is where #UFoI comes in, its a group of instances that I know for sure will be federated with each other, so I can just ask my friends to join one of the instances listed there.
And the transparency bit is something I really appreciate, I know there are some bad actors on fedi that engage in slandering and false accusations without any evidence backing their claims, so I hope #UFoI can solve these issues.