FailForward @FailForward@qoto.org

@piggo I guess you refer to the Azerbaijan story...

@piggo Well, it's worth checking the full speech. Very well done. That last statement was clearly an emotional off-the-cuff ending. Perhaps will need some backpedaling. Still, this speech will go down in history well.

@piggo did you spot something specific?

@pony Unfortunately that is so. I find myself still somewhat conflicted about it, I guess a pacifist by "desire", I find myself actively working to harm others - perhaps not physically, but still. Anyway, for a conflict you need just one party. So we've got it. It wasn't our choice, but I feel our own world is at stake, so "desires" of pacifism go aside.

@pony Sorry for a long-ish rant. I am easily triggered these days, sometimes even burst in tears seeing or reading some things I cannot unsee or unthink anymore.

@pony

> I'd like to clarify that hating on people because they are ethnically Russian or have a Russian passport is very bad and you should really not do it.

What you call for is not to conflate actions of the government with the attitudes of individuals under that government's rules.

Sure. That's just basic human decency as I (and clearly you and I hope many too) understand it.

And yet, it's more complicated than that when we think about it. Because it's not only about government vs. individuals, but also about government vs. the society vs. the individuals that comprise that society. And shall we blame the society here? Or at least ascribe responsibility to it?

My personal take is, yes, we can. even though I feel "dirty" about it because I never expected myself to make such swiping generalizations. But here I am, I do make them - as clearly do 70+% of Ukrainians today and I happen to agree with them (begrudgingly). Why?

1. I just read some stats, it seems 70+% of Russian society agrees with the policies and actions of their government. I don't care whether they are brainwashed or not (from our perspective, which is biased!), I effectively see human beings agreeing to inhuman actions. It tells me they don't share values with me. Now if you find yourself trying to tell me that 70+% is not all, my counter would be that in the countries you or me live/lived/know elections are won by a thin margin, so 70+% is HUGE.
2. over the last 3 decades Eastern European societies spent vast amounts of energy and resources and experienced a lot of pain and went through huge struggles to bootstrap themselves out of the quagmire left after communism fall in '89. We all worked f**ing hard to get somewhere, to build civic societies and as a side effect also some level of economic prosperity. The price for that was vast uncertainties about our ways of life, never-ending barrage of corrupt cronies trying to usurp the rule n our countries and our societies struggles against them so as to make something better out of our societies. This costs energy and requires mobilisation of large swaths of the society. And what did Russian society did during all this time? Figure yourself. Even the lights of hope they produced were weak and dim without much support. In the end their society's non-actions produced this horror in Ukraine. And you know what? I do blame them for it. All of them. Including my friends, members of Russian society who now regret and try to separate themselves from these horrors their society produces. Exactly as I am blamed and take responsibility for wrong-doing of my own society in present and in the past, even though individually I don't support those policies either.

Is this a coherent and "clean" philosophical stance? No it isn't. But I will go and argue there's something about it. As a member of a society you cannot escape some level of collective responsibility.

BTW, the last 3 decades we saw this struggle in Easterm European nations including Ukraine. But it's nothing new. Western-EU, or even US societies went through exactly such struggles in the past too. And my great hope is that one day, Russian society will also liberate themselves from that backwards-staring mindset and will one day start to constructively and positively look onto the world around them. Honestly, I am not sure it will happen in my lifetime. It's a tough multi-decade and multi-generational process.

@piggo gut 🙂

@z428 "Unverplant" gets a completely new meaning in this context 🙂 . Like "I planned it, but pretend like I didn't".

@z428 Well, I meant more like "melancholic" rather than "dark".

But my question is genuine: do you have a cheerful/funny pieces/sets too?

@z428 This is really beautiful. Albeit quite somber. Do you ever take/make cheerful photos?

@piggo where is that?

@piggo

And that is indeed happening. Just listen to what Pres. Zelenskiy said in his yesterday's message: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/15/ukraine-war-large-explosions-heard-in-kyiv-zelenskiy-calls-on-russian-troops-to-surrender-putin-china-latest-news?page=with:block-623016128f080ca36791957e#block-623016128f080ca36791957e

@pony @naruciakk @wolf480pl

@piggo Why tracks are not being destroyed was discussed many times. The argument is that Russian logistics is really crappy, they cannot operate beyond about 100km from their depots which are beyond UKR borders. So they will have to rely on trains. The idea probably being that once they take important railheads, they will be able to use the railway network for their own logistics. That's probably why they are not destroying it, because they will need it - should they ever succeed.

It's the same question as "why the heck there are still cell phone networks and Internet available in the war zone?" The answer is that Russian mil comms turned out so poor that they rely on mobile phones for tactical comms and therefore do not attack the network itself (yet).

Of course these are speculations, but those questions are relevant and intriguing.

@pony @naruciakk @wolf480pl

@trinsec Well, weirder things happened in Russia already :-). But I am with you on this, it just does not make sense.