@FailForward

>"People who call themselves realists are often just dreamers who gottheir hearts broken somewhere along the way."

This reminds me of another quote in a different context:

"Conservatives are liberals who've been mugged."

Usually said by conservatives who consider themselves to be realists.

@FailForward

Conservatism is about fear of the future. Liberalism is about fear of the past.

@Pat

@FailForward

semantic arguments are boring. The definition of liberal you just gave I would call either classically liberal or libertarian. When I see liberal used on its own I see it as synonomous with the left and if a word is needed to be a bit more granular then liberal = neo-liberal.

That said semantics are stupid. Lets just replace the words I used with democrat and republican so there is no problem with quibbling over definitions.

@Pat

@FailForward @freemo

The "mugged" quote originated in the US way back in the latter part of the 20th century.

Words are constantly changing their meanings over time. Political terms are especially susceptible because opponents will often intentionally try to redefine the meaning of terms associated with their rivals, or they coop terms that seem positive for their own use.

Liberal started off meaning classical liberalism (Locke, Hobbs, Jefferson), then, in the US, the left cooped the term to describe themselves, hoping to gain positive vibes for themselves, even though their political philosophy was quite different. Later, the conservatives ran the word "liberal" through the toilet describing every ill on Earth as "liberal", so then the left stopped using "liberal" and started using "progressive", even though their ideas have nothing to do car insurance.

@Pat

This is pretty much the same mechanics as the euphemism treadmill, and I agree.

@FailForward

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@freemo @FailForward

>This is pretty much the same mechanics as the euphemism treadmill, and I agree.

Yep, very much. Words naturally change meaning over time because of gradual misunderstanding or whatever, but in politics, it's rapid and intentional.

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