@freemo seems like a conflict of interest to be opposed to bernie but choose to live somewhere more socialist than anything the US would be even w/bernie?

@hushroom Except that isnt the reality. It is a common narrative though.

Two points to back that up.

1) Recently Bernie keeps saying exactly what you just said, that Nordic countries are socialistic and should be a model... what was the response, the prime minister of Norway recently gave a public statement specifically stating that Bernie had the wrong idea and that Nordic countries were **not** socialist, I agree with him.

2) the best objective measure we have for socialism is wealth redistribution. If we measure the difference between the tax burden between the upper class and the lower class we have a good objective way to measure how socialistic a country is. Here in the netherlands there is a much smaller difference in tax burden between upper and middle class than even in america. By that measure America is technically more socialistic, not less.

With that said my expiernce is most of the people here in the Netherlands dont really view Bernie as some normal socialist. Most see him as just another bat shit crazy politician with absurd policies that are reckless to say the least. Usually when im at a cafe or some other random encounter with another fellow dutchman if politics come up Bernie is always the butt of the joke, I dont think I met a single dutch person who actually takes Bernie seriously or thinks his policies are even remotely reasonable or in line with the sort of ideals we have here in europe.

@freemo Lets sidestep the issue of defining what the S word means and ignore specifics names and acronyms, like obamacare or m4a. At the end of the day, does the government use tax money to provide benefits such as healthcare to citizens?

What is the "batshit crazy" about bernie but totally normal in the equivalent policies of many western european countries? I guess here in USA we haven't exactly seen a large enough selection of socialists to understand what is exactly crazy about Bernie (ideally content of his policies not just ad hominem , character assassination, or crystal ball predictions).

also, im unclear on your 2) best objective measure of socialism. The statistic of "tax burden equality" seems misleading taken out of context from "income equality". For example, i imagine a soc...whatever the Scandinavian countries are, with a high minimum wage and tax laws to reel in/prevent the Jeff Bezos tier wealth accumulation, where everyone earns more equally would then have a very small tax burden inequality, making them "unsocialist" by this metric?
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@hushroom Sure, I we can discuss it in that way...

So does the government provide benefits to its citizens.. well yes, though I dont think its that simple. In the USA if your too poor to afford healthcare it is given to you for free (or if you can only afford part of the costs then at a significant discount). I grew up poor and was on it myself for a good portion of my life as was most of my family. So does it provide healthcare... yes.

Now I would argue the way in which it provides healthcare is broken, its also broken the way it is provided throughout much of europe. But if your just asking me if the USA provides healthcare or not, then technically the answer would be yes.

As for the second part the big issue I think is exactly what you view as Socialist. The thing is you HAVE seen socialists in america, far more than we see in europe, europe isnt a socialistic region despite popular opinion. But as you said, lets not focus ont he label.. so the real question here is.. why is Bernie seen as batshit crazy to many people in Europe.. Well thats simple, he has reckless idealistic policies that ultimately are self defeating to his stated goals.

Generally Bernie's whole platform seems to be "people or companies with lots of money are to blame, money is a pie and they are taking too much". That is a view you wont find in much of europe's political scene. The first thing we learn in economics is that wealth is not a pie, someone having more doesnt mean someone has less. but more importantly is how this effects his policies. His policies generally attack corporations or the rich, effectively all the wealth-generating sources america has. The goal is to reduce the number of rich people in a vain attempt to use those resources to help the poor. Except sadly thats not how money works. We have seen when countries have went down that path in the past they wind up destitute with no money to support social programs anymore. You cant demonize wealth generation without destroying the countries ability to generate wealth, obviously.

What bernie should be doing if he truly wanted to model himself after nordic countries is the following:

1) cut the taxes on the rich, including corperations, yes cut it.

2) Also cut the taxes on the middle class

3) provide a focus on free or cheap education for everyone at every level.

4) Completely end starvation in the USA (and potentially even the world.

5) Pay for all the above with **plenty** of money left over for other programs (including a solution to the healthcare problem) by cutting military spending by 50%

#5 is the key here and why bernies tactic of barely touching the military budget and taking all the money out of the pockets of industry is exactly why most of europe sees him as bat shit crazy.

@shibaprasad

I've had about 10 or 11 indians speak out about their opinion on Bernie. Only 1 of them supported bernie the rest disliked him. None of them supported Trump either though.

So to me it does appear to be fairly in line with the views of many Indians. I can also say it seems to be similar among the Dutch and much of europe, it seems he is seen as a joke and incompetent to the vast majority of the world, or atleast to many here in Europe and in India.

@crackurbones