It feels good having confidence that there isn't a pending civil war. With that said, anyone want to buy a night vision monocle?

@Demosthenes I think it says a lot if the assumption is that if liberals loose an election they might get violent to the point of killing and starting a civil war and now that the repuclicans lost there is little or no fear of them rising up in violence in the same way and starting such a war....

To me the take away from that stated truth is probably a lot different than most people would think :)

@freemo I think there was still extreme risk with Republicans losing too. The only reason I'm relaxing now is because Trump is signalling that he will let the transition occur for the good of the nation. He just as easily could have put out a call to arms and had several million people fighting for him.

To put that in perspective, the Taliban only comprises of about 10k people.

The issue isn't left-vs-right, it's a problem of growing political polarization in general.

@Demosthenes The difference here is that trump has now had the chance to call people to arms to test your theory if those fears were true. he has not, it has now been demonstrated such fears were not founded.

However your fear of liberals rising up and biden being the one who called people to do violence instead, is only waning because they won and such an ultimatum never needed to be tested in the first place.

So in one case you now have proof they were not going to rise up and be violent, as they have demonstrated with their actions, and the other group you have no evidence to support those fears are at all unfounded and remain unanswered.

So even so the logic persists that your stance shows something very important.

@freemo @Demosthenes "you have no evidence to support those fears are at all unfounded and remain unanswered."

Except you know, like, the last 4 years when we haven't had violence due to an election result.

@finity

I live in philly, for many months out of the last 4 years the skys have been black with smoke as openly liberal crowds burned down buildings, and cars and homes. I've seen mothers holding their children in the streets in hysterics as mobs of people continued to incite violence all around her...

Never in my live have I ever been a witness to such massive and repeated violence on a large scale as I have the last 4 years. Cant say I've seen a single incidence of violence from the right since Trump lost the election or before if we are talking about actual en mass or face-to-face violence. Only exception I know about are a handful of cases that have showed up on TV and almost entirely individual violence, nothing even close to what I've seen on large scale from liberal mobs.

@Demosthenes

@freemo @Demosthenes That's not because Trump was elected though. It's not because a liberal lost an election. Which is the specific irrational fear you're discussing.

@finity

no, we were discussing if we had to fear violence and an uprising, for whatever the specific instigating cause, from the left or the right...

To argue the fact that the left has been violent and engaging in that sort of behavior, but for "other reasons" is somehow evidence they were not a concern is weak at best. Not to mention even if it wasnt not entirely true, their perspective of seeing the current government as authoritarian and evil almost certainly gave rise to them being much quicker to engage in uprisings over perceived injustices than they would under some other president.

There was no shortage of innocent black men being shot dead by police under Obama either, but we weren't seeing the same sort of reaction back then because they werent being spoon fed constant propaganda about living under the modern day hitler.

@Demosthenes

@freemo @Demosthenes "I think it says a lot if the assumption is that if liberals loose an election they might get violent to the point of killing and starting a civil war"

There's the quote. If you aren't suggesting that liberals losing an election is the cause of violence you're worried about, then I think you aren't being careful with your rhetoric.

And that is probably a large part of what causes left/right misunderstandings in my opinion.

@finity @freemo I'm not disagreeing with you on your comment here. I'd just like to state that I gamed out several potential outcomes of the election and predicted their potential for violence. The most dangerous was an early biden lead that shifts to a final Trump victory. I predicted the chances of mass nationwide rioting at above 80% and civil war at 50%, and I predict conservatively.

@Demosthenes @freemo based on what? (actually interested, not challenging)

@finity @freemo I pulled the numbers out of my ass, but for these kinds of things, my ass tends to be pretty accurate. I tend to see the behaviors of people more based on flows of power and influence, and it works well with predicting how politicians would leverage certain situations.

@Demosthenes

Fair, and honest, I can respect that.

All I can say is I dont think the numbers were quite that high.. though they were scarily high.

Even a 5% chance of civil war is far too high anda lot bigger than it sounds.

But I can say what ever the numbers were I was only ever scared of my life when it comes to the liberals lately and post election. I can also say I had my gun, my ammo, my food supplies and a bug out bag ready for a worst case scenario if it did happen. so clearly I felt it was real enough to be prepared.

The right worries me in terms of the fact that they are shitty evil politicians no better than the left. But when it comes to the people the masses, only the left make me feel my life is at risk for some time now. the idea of the right starting violence was never even a possibility in my mind, hell most of the right barely like trump.

@finity

@freemo @finity your choice of language scares me here, and is very emblematic of the us-vs-them tribal mentality that is gripping the nation.
The violence isn't because of the left. It's because of the political system that is leading to such extremism on both sides. The fact that you don't fear the right at all betrays your political leanings to a certain extent.
To fix this, we need to fix the system and break the cycle of extremism.

@Demosthenes

Ok your missing an important point... While the left **is** the top concernw hen it comes to violence right now that does not mean "us vs them"... how can i be "us vs them" when i am not on the republican side either.. when it comes to violence the left are a huge threat as their actions have demonstrated, the right is not, that is true. But I also despise the right for a great many other reasons that simply doesnt happen to be violence (for example they rape our environment and it is killing us all).

So no it isnt an us vs them.. its a "I am calling the left out for being the powerboy of violence and intolerance for four years"..a nd its a "I am also calling out the right for shit it just is that that shit isnt the topic we are discussing at the moment"

While ic an agree both sides is are shit and no one side is the sole problem, I would not think it is fair or a good thing to reduce that to "every side is bad in the same way and to the same degree, both sides are to blame for the violence"
@finity

@freemo @Demosthenes I would say that neither side is actually advocating for violence. That's what I would say.

Aside from decisions about done strikes, which I put in a different category...

The right does not advocate for violence. The left does not either.

There are people on both sides that are advocating for violence, but they do not represent their whole "side".

There are fine people on both sides also. Just not on that one weekend in Carolina.

@finity

depends on who we are talking about as advocates, and i might agree.

If we talk about the politicians then i mostly agree politicians on neither side outwardly call for violence. They do however spew massive fear-based propaganda which both sides eat up and has the indirect result (and likely somewhat intention) of inciting violence. In this regard the left has been at full tilt for 4 years while the right has been relatively less active in that sense.

It is the masses taht are prone to violence and even calling for it, and as a result of that propaganda, not the leaders.

@Demosthenes