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I've always found the "Chinese Curses" of particular interest. Now to be fair there is no evidence that the origin of these curses are Chinese but that doesn't take anything away from them:
* May you live in interesting times.
* May you come to the attention of important people.
* May all your wishes come true.
of them all the last one was always the most interesting to me. For two reasons, first, we may not always be fully aware of what we truly want or the consequences of it. But also, if all your wishes come true, what is left to look forward to and strive for. There is no reason to life without unfulfilled desires.
@shakha Why would you head in a direction that you do not wish to go in. If all your wishes came true anything you could do would have to be the set of things you do not wish to do, nor wish for the results from doing it.
@freemo is not wishing for something the same as wishing not to have it?
@shakha nope thats why i specifically picked the wording "not wish".. point is why would you put effort into a path you had no opinion on.
I dont know about you but I do not take actions unless i wish for those actions to take place.
@freemo If you have something that fulfils you without a clear end point, the only wish that can really be fulfilled is to have an idea of how to keep on that path or to not have obstacles that prevent it (like unmanageable and crippling health issues).
A cliche example: if you wanted to make the world a better place, how could that logically be fulfilled? Maybe if it was defined as better than at a particular moment, but what if it was always “better than currently” whenever you thought of it?
@shakha Not sure why you keep saying "clear end point" .. the point is not confined to clear endpoints, or any endpoint at all. If you do not wish to take the journey, then why do you take it?
@freemo are you just defining wishes to be any motivation at all? Because yeah, by that definition, you have no motivation left when you have no wishes left. Agreed, haha.
@shakha "What should I do? Do whatever you wish"... I'm defining wish by its dictionary definition :)
@freemo You’re right. I modified the definition to specify things that could actually be fulfilled since the curse requires your wishes to be fulfilled. In the example I gave earlier, I’m not sure if losing motivation there could happen through any kind of fulfilment.
@shakha We are deep in semantics at this point. While its hard to be wrong in the world of semantics, as we define the rules as we go. Its also when the ideas hold less value since they become mutable.
The valuable lesson here is that happiness is what drives us no matter how much we may want to think it is some altruistic cause. All of our wishes are simply all the things we believe would bring us happiness. Thus, if all your wishes are fullfilled then by extension you either fall into one of two classes 1) there is nothing left that would bring you happiness or 2) your wishes were not in line with what makes you happy. Neither of which is a very nice end.
Another valuable lesson: make sure you’re using words the same way in a conversation and delineate any additional assumptions you’re making before carrying on.
But yeah, I think we’re generally aligned on this topic.
@freemo the second one is pretty dark, considering what kind of people need to hold positions of power for that to be a curse.
@freemo This is my first time heard of Chinese Curses, at least in English. In actual Chinese speaking culture we sarcastically say seemingly good things to each other to jinx it, because we believe that as long as it gets brought up, even if the words are good, it's jinxed.
@freemo For example (happened very often when I worked for a call centre in HK), during shift changes if we feel like an asshole, we say to the next shift things like "may you have many good business" which just means "may you have many difficult incident calls".
@Rovine The chinese curses dont likely originate with the chinese. Its a somewhat older racist term for things that are not what they seem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_you_live_in_interesting_times
@freemo Lol nice. I can see a vague relation anyway, since Chinese do say fake wishes as a trollish sarcasm among friends. The last bit "among friends" is important, which makes it not actually chinese curses in the way it's defined.
@freemo that’s why you wish for more wishes haha.
More seriously, it’s possible to have sources of motivation that give you directions to go in rather than clearly defined end goals. These remain with you even if your wishes come true (or become impossible, depending on what life throws at you).