@freemo there was a post on twitter where, trump is dismissing his lower rating in a poll as fake news, i replied to the reply which someone just had LOL LOL etc loads of times, with the question LOL aside what happens if a serving president says the result of an election is fake news and refuses to step aside.
Under normal circumstances, that suggestion would be crazy, esp in teh US, but hey with trump at the helm who knows.
🇳🇱
@zleap If your going to argue trump is stupid and dangerous you wont get any argument out of me.. The difference is I also think the democrats are stupid and dangerous too.
@freemo Yeah, not really much better over here in the UK, Kier starmer is proabably batter than Jeremy corbyn was though,
Thing is alst time labour were in , we ended up in Iraq on lies, adn the country ended up bankrupt, labour wanted to re nationalise everything, which would have cost billions.
@zleap racism is such a tricky word.. pretty much anyone who doesnt fit someones ideology exactly is a racist and deserving of absolute hatred..
Me.. I see the spectrum and I try to put it in the context of thet ime.
For example a lot of people here are calling Thomas Jefferson a racist. There are some points that seem to make it obvious to those people, namely he owned slaves, which is more than enough to frame him as such (and I can see why they can think that without applying more critical thought or time on the subject)...
But when you look deeper you find he was very actively against slavery. He wrote a book strongly crying out against slavery, and he was one of the earliest abolitionists in USA, since its founding, well ahead of his time.
Even the fact that he had slaves can somewhat be explained within the context of the time. While many slaves wanted equality at the time many explicitly did not want to be freed individually. That usually meant poverty and a garunteed lynching. They felt safer and more protected as a slave to a generous master than to be free in a state that is so actively racist they would be killed on sight. He treated his slaves very good, gave them good conditions, good food, treated them as best one would expect given they were slaves, all the while doing everything he could to try to forge equality so he could one day safely free them and they could go on to live a life afterwards.
@freemo People seem to never see the whole picture,. I guess this is almost like the #MeTo movement again, if you breathed on someone in the wrong way 10+ years go, we are going out get you kicked out.
Lots of Lynching and not much actual solving of problems.
But yea a statue in Bristol of a Slave owner was pushed in to teh canal, sure he owned slaves and was rich but he gave a lot of that money to the right causes, so probably like jefferson, but the fact he owned slaves made him Mr bad guy .
@zleap Yup, the problem is radicalization of both sides..
The horshoe theory is correct but confusing. It doesnt mean that both sides have the same core ideals, they dont. But they do have the same level of immaturity and radicalization in those ideas.
Same abusive personalities just with a different set of misguided morals, morals that in a less radicalized form would actually be good, from either side.
@freemo Yeah, not really sure what to suggest, for either side, all i can seem to observe is while the west is falling in to the Abyss China, and other countries are rising, to take their place.
@zleap True, I mean, what I suggest is dont be radicalized for starters.. its ok to lean one side or the other, but be middle-ish.. dont be head strong and absolute that either side has all the answers.. Listen to the solutions and problems of both sides, consider them all, and come up with solutions that address both sides concerns.
@freemo I am like that on here well friendica too, some of the conversations end up quite intense but we come out of having learnt something e. g i learnt doctors are still using the NAZI anatomy guide book, in 2020,
@zleap I have a reputation (even among my mods ::looks at @design_RG ::) of starting trouble. Which of course people sometimes worry I might cause a bad reputation in the process for QOTO.
But frankly talking about difficult subjects, even if it may become intense, is the whole reason I started this server. People cant talk rationally about polarizing subjects anymore and my main goal has always been to change that. So for me ruffling a few feathers, as long as I do it respectfully, is perfectly ok with me :)
@freemo @design_RG This is why i like the fediverse, intelligent conversation. views that make you think but ideas can be expressed and challenged.
Honestly it isnt the whole of the fediverse. But I find because we as an instance have a reputation for being respectful but dont censor either side of the spectrum the end result is all the most radicalized instances have silenced us (and they are in a minority thankfully) and whats left is largely the part of the fediverse that has value.
> I have a reputation (even among my mods ::looks at @design_RG ::) of starting trouble. Which of course people sometimes worry I might cause a bad reputation in the process for QOTO.
Yep. I've been know for calling a Board of Directors emergency session on occasion. lol... 😛
@freemo Both sides hate each other so much you end up with good policies being blocked by the other side, a recipe for backward moving progress. Sometmes you need both parties to agree on a way forward.
@zleap Exactly, only radicalized policies for one side or the other gets trhough, and usually by a vote that is purely down party lines.. the end result is more damage than good, even when good intentions exist.
@freemo Well they ripped down the statue as apparently no one was listening to them, but the issue of the statue was debated within the council, they just didn't get their way with it in terms of it being removed,
so during this protest decided to rip down the statue, roll it 1km and chuck it in the canal
They need to learn they are not always going to get THEIR way.
End of the day you can't erast history, so going back to Thomas Jefferson if you remove his statue, you don't remove him from history, good education is learn both sides,
Give it 25 years, schools need to teach about the racial inequality as being part of a slow road to better equality (assuming in 25 years we have that of course)
So going back to Churchill story, Auschwitz still stands as a monument and reminder as to what happened.
@zleap Well said.. PErsonally I think anytime you look back more than about 50 years or so, no matter wht the conditions were at the time, they will always look like immoral assholes. Morals change and its always relative.. I have no doubt the people of 2070 will look back at the riots of 2020 and go "savages!"
@freemo Yeah watching the 8 days a week documentary there is a shot of public wash rooms
Men, Women and the more run down one at the end of the row maked Blacks,
I am sure we have moved on since then, I actually like the movie 'Remember the titans, ' about the School football team.
@freemo Over here Churchills statue was defaced over the weekend with the addition of the words 'was a racist', so apparently, according to the person that did it (via Daily Mail of course) Churchill fought WWII not for people of colour or anyone else but for colonialism.
Says a lot about the Education system if people think that,. Sure maybe he wasn't perfect but he saved this country, Europe and much more besides that, And yes the US and UK stood side by side as allies.