@dankmaximus I've removed a few toots of my own before I clicked 'Toot!' because I'm not in the mood to escalate this conversation much myself. :P
You seem rather young to me with those ideals. I've lived in the USA for 4 years about 2 decades ago (basically right before the shitstorm era started).
Nice country to visit (especially when you're white to begin with), wouldn't mind going there again for a holiday (provided a non-crazy is at top). Would absolutely not want to live there because there's a shitton of socio-economic issues they have to fix.
If you read in our Dutch news about minorities not getting all the help they deserve.. Just imagine it 10-100 times worse than that, and you've got exactly what USA has.
The only thing I wouldn't mind importing is the ADA law.
And I don't view weapons as freedom, FYI.
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In general I agree with you, if you want to just measure what is a more pleasurable place to live in then the Netherlands beats america, I moved there for a reason. But I'd also say that is only polarization of america (last 1-2 decades), prior to that I would have picked the USA.
That said freedom by definition is being able to choose for yourself. You may think freedom to own guns is not a good freedom, you may think it puts peoples lives at risk or creates a more dangerous situation, but it is freedom all the same. Freedom doesnt have the requirement that it is good (though i do hold the opinion in this case it is a good sort of freedom). But by any definition it is freedom.
@freemo In the 90's (and earlier) we considered USA to be quite the pinnacle of freedom. It got squandered bigtime after 9/11. I can understand why USA went the way it went, but... I also can't understand why it went overboard. I can only say I left on time.
And my reasoning with guns is the following:
If my neighbour gets a gun and carries it all the time (let's say that's allowed), would I feel as free to have an argument with him? Or should I need to get a gun of my own first, show my neighbour that I own one too, before I can start an argument with him?
After all, it would not be a level playing field anymore if I wouldn't get a gun as well.
I know American friends who don't want a gun. But because the wife is black, the area they live in is racistic (gotten worse under Trump), they are considering getting one for her safety. Is that freedom? REAL freedom? Or is it peer pressure in a vicious circle?
That is my opinion entierly.. the USA was a great place pre-911 and had amazing freedoms (thought othe issues did need addressing as we covered).. post 911 I would take the Netherlands over the USA in a heart beat... but constitutionally the USA still has the netherlands beat, and in the specific ways I listed. Its just the USA has created so many anti-freedom laws that arent constitutional IMO that we really cant claim superior freedoms anymore.
