@freemo do we have any mRNA tech experts here? I've been talking to somebody who I consider highly educated and smart that is pushing hard for alternative covid treatments such as Ivermectin and making claims about Pfizer's vaccine being cytotoxic. I'd like to get a second opinion to inform myself better, preferably from somebody who is actually involved in this domain as a researcher.
@zpartacoos @freemo
https://flccc.net/flccc-ivermectin-in-the-prophylaxis-and-treatment-of-covid-19/
The evidence in favour of ivermectin is rock solid. The evidence against vaccines shaky at best.
My suspicion is that unless you work for Pfizer or Moderna you're unlikely to find the data necessary to intelligently comment - other than VRAES etc. which seem broken and plausibly deniable by design.
Better to fight the battle for ivermectin than against the vaccines from what I can see.
@zpartacoos @freemo would be very interested to hear an open-minded specialists opinion on the data that is available though
this website appears better than most in terms of openness *and* professionalism
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Honestly I dont personally have the energy to debunk another anti-vax argument. Maybe later.
I myself do not suggest people take the vaccination, but I also wouldnt say the vaccine doesnt work or that ivermectin is somehow safer and better. My stance is simply that we dont have enough data just yet for the vaccine to warrant mass consumption, though I admit most of the evidence for the vaccine so far has shown that, aside from AZ, is pretty safe for mass consumption. AZ still has a place, but likely shouldnt be a first line vax.
Fair, while we don't agree on ivermectin (and admittedly i didn't read your links) the rest I can get behind.
Vaccines would have been fine by me if they just bothered to go through the usual safety tests rather than rushing it through.
@freemo @zpartacoos do check out the paper I linked above from the FLCCC.
Don't read many medical papers but I've never seen data like it.
Noisy, yes, but the signal is coming from like 7 different methodologies.
When I have the energy to get into the COVID debate again i will absolutely check it out... But after a year and a half of debating covid I am kinda on covid holiday now that the vaccine is out and it is more or less behind us.
@freemo @zpartacoos yeah we're pretty much in agreement. If you're at risk, crack on with the vaccine imo, if you're young and healthy it's worth some thought and research.
Where I disagree is that ivermectin seems to have a far better risk profile than vaccines and perhaps is more effective.
Precautionary principle should insist vaccines were never touched and ivermectin used instead. This data was available in Dec 2020.