@swiley I agree 100% with you, thats an issue. But then again thats just as much the conspirasy theorists fault as it is the governments. If so many people werent out there spreading lies convincing people to put their lives at risk there wouldnt have been the need.

@freemo There's arguably no need regardless.

@swiley While I dont agree that it should be forced on anyone, there is a need, and the conspiracy theorists created it.

There are countless people who beleived their lies and arent smart enough to know better who are going to die. It has kept the vaccinations from reaching herd immunity and as such the potential for ever more variants to arise.

So the need is preventing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people that anti-vaxers have caused.. yes there is a "need", I just dont feel that justified forced vaccination no matter how big that need may be

@freemo Israel has nearly 100% vaccination and has no herd immunity.
The virus is not as deadly as people say it is and there are alternative treatments that work better as Japan, Mexico, and India have found.
Pushing the vaccine instead of Ivermectin and antibodies is killing people.

@swiley Wrong, Israel has <80% vaccinated as of the latest figures and herd immunity kicks in above 80% with this virus.. So no they dont have herd immunity yet.

Also remember what I said, herd immunity only works when the entire population reaches it quickly (before variants have a chance to form which accelerates as you vaccinate before reaching herd immunity). We achieved herd immunity with smallpox, for example, because the campaign was global and that was a bit of an easier virus in terms of variants.

@freemo I thought Fauci said 50%.

@swiley I have no idea what Fauci said, nor do I care what he or any one specific doctor says. I care about the scientific consensus which has herd immunity well above 80%

@freemo Either way, the vaccine is not as effective as Ivermectin and monoclonal antibodies. It's orders of magnitude more deadly than every vaccine we've had, and for younger boys it's more deadly than covid itself.
It's not a good treatment.

@swiley Its many times more effective than Ivermectin (which may be part of a treatment as well, assuming the vaccine was already tried)... you sound like an uninformed dunce honestly, almost no one has died from the vaccine, you are spewing anti-science, anti-fact bullshit. You do you, but you've lost the respect of myself and so many others (who continually keep reporting you) with this anti-intellectual nonsense that even a few minutes of research could easily disprove if you didnt have your head up your ass.

If I sound mad, I am, because aside from just costing hundreds of thousands of people their lives by spreading this bullshit misinformation, you are also now costing people their freedoms as a consequence because people are so desperate to try to find a way to save those lives.

@freemo
>almost no one has died from the vaccine
This is clearly wrong. There are enough deaths from the heart problems alone that they're investigating it.

@swiley thus the word almost.. only 2 people died from blood clots, they investigated it. Of those who got myocarditis so far 0 have died, only 2 wound up in the ICU..

Enough got symptoms of myocarditis to investigate it, true, but 100% of people survived. If anything it demonstrates the safety of vaccines and how even symptoms with no deaths is enough to trigger a full investigation.

@freemo There have been thousands of deaths reported to VARES, a service run by the CDC. Where is your data coming from?

@swiley See this is why you are too uneducated on the subject to open your mouth and why you would fail the above test.

VARES requires doctors, by law, to report any death even those not related to covid, that occur within 14 days after a vaccine, any death at all. The death reports in VAREs does **not** represent death due to the vaccine. These deaths are followed up and investigated to see if any of them wind up being caused by the vaccines and out of those investigations there are very very few deaths.

Please stop saying shit you **think** is true but lack even basic training or education to understand the nonsense coming out of your mouth. If you dont understand a topic dont try to "educate" people with misinformation, educate yourself first.

@freemo @swiley Yes friend if you are worried about VAERS containing false positives, you should look up how they are defining "covid deaths". Any person who dies, for any reason, but has a coronavirus positive diagnosis, is counted as a covid death. Keep in mind too that before the tests were common, simply having symptoms like coughing or a runny nose could be enough to get a positive diagnosis. Thank you friend.

@bebe @freemo @swiley Exactly. You can't eat your cake and have it too. Either VAERS deaths AND covid deaths are bullshit, or both are true. Choose one frame, don't flip flop between both to suit your interests.

@Eris Sorry it doesnt work that way... There is no "COVID deaths list"... there are many different lists and each one you must understand the criteria. There is VARES, there is the CDC preliminary, there is the CDC finalized, there are doubple blind sampled studies, and many hundreds if not thousands of different lists.

The problem with not being educated on the topic are exactly these sort of inane simplifications.

@freemo
>Sorry it doesnt work that way... There is no "COVID deaths list"...
What is CNN putting on its chyron every day then?
>The problem with not being educated on the topic are exactly these sort of inane simplifications.
The problem is that you think that is only happening on one side.

@Eris CNN along with any mainstream media, is not a scientific source. They, like fox news or any other media, spew nonsense.

@freemo Yet you aren't calling them murderers. Curious.

@Eris I'm not? I've called CNN murderers plenty of times.

@freemo This thread seems pretty one-sided to me bro. The "vaccine misinformation" is causing mass death, but the covid misinformation is irrelevant to you.

@Eris This thread is one-sided. It addresses one issue with one side. Is there some rule that says every thread must call out every issue on every side at all times?

Anti-vaxers being idiots dont get a pass just because CNN are idiots for the other side. ?You being an idiot is not excusable if other people who disagree with you somewhere are also idiots. (general you here, not you specifically)

@freemo
>Is there some rule that says every thread must call out every issue on every side at all times?
Yes. People deduce your position based on the arguments you present. If you present one-sided arguments, your position is one-sided in practice. Alluding to things you do which no one here sees is just an attempt to maintain credibility.
>Anti-vaxers being idiots dont get a pass just because CNN are idiots for the other side.
Of course they do. IF you give one a pass, you have to give the other a pass. If you criticize one, you have to criticize the other. If you are inconsistent on this it signals dishonesty to people.
Either being an idiot is okay or it isn't.

@Eris People deduce your opinion based on the comments you make over time. No one in their right mind looks at one isolated comment about one thing and assume that is the whole of their opinion. They would look at my history of comments, discussions, and ask questions and then gather the bigger picture to judge me.

IF you are drawing conclusions about my stance from one post on one specific aspect of a topic then you arent really forming a complete picture.

@freemo
>People deduce your opinion based on the comments you make over time
Absolutely not, no. No one is going to remember who you are beyond this conversation and no one coming into this conversation has any idea who you are or what you have done outside of it. No one cares about you enough to research you, lol.
>you are drawing conclusions about my stance from one post on one specific aspect of a topic then you arent really forming a complete picture.
Accurately representing a full picture of yourself is your job. If you fail at it it's your fault.

@Eris Anyone who is judging me off an isolated comment is someone I really could care less about anyway. So really couldnt care less, but your right im sure people are going to judge me based on an out of context remark and infer all sorts of nonsense all the time.. I guess i just dont give a shit.

@freemo I think the complete indifference toward making sense displayed by pro-vaxxers like you is a more significant cause of vaccine reluctance than misinformation is. Behavior like yours in this thread is why people don't trust the vaccine.
When no one on the other side of the argument will deign to reason with you, the reasonable deduction is that you are on the right side of the argument.

@Eris Clearly you werent listening, I'm not a provaxer. In fact I explicitly stated I am not vaccinated and am vaccine hesitant and dont think vaccination is a good idea at this time.

So anything else you stated shows you are clueless about me and my opinions.

@freemo You have positioned yourself against anti-vaxxers. That makes you a pro-vaxxer. That is how binary conflicts work. You are either friend or enemy, there is no third option.

@Eris No it doesnt, and this just illustrated how your black and white overly simplistic thinking leads to an inability to reason.

I can be against the vaccines and still think the majority of people who are against the vaccine are idiots and dont understand the details. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

@freemo
>I can be against the vaccines and still think the majority of people who are against the vaccine are idiots and dont understand the details.
Sure but that still makes you enemy. It's a binary. This is how human beings work whether you like it or not.

@Eris Being the enemy is not the same as being a pro-vaxxer.. I do agree that i am "the enemy" of many anti-vaxers despite not being a pro-vaxer.. I'm also the enemy of many pro-vaxers since i call them out on their own bullshit.

@freemo @Eris well niggy you're an enemy of mine since you have spent 3 days trying to be right even though everything points to you being wrong. I can give anyone a QRD

Eris: Hell thread champ
Dr. Freemo: unsure where he is right now.

@D00B @freemo The trick to winning arguments is to choose the side that's right. Everything else is just details.

@Eris @D00B @freemo being morally right is often at times disprovable with any number of “facts”

Also I find it amusing his obsessed about numbers and statistics, it won’t let the “hard data” go when it is been demonstrably proven that the powers that be will use and excuse statistics anyway they deem fit in order to push social policy

I for one don’t really care if it works or not or if it’s dangerous or not. At this point I’m telling them to fuck off out of spite. People in charge are a bunch of misanthropic sociopaths and they can go fuck themselves

@Jackuu

Oddly we agree. The forced vaccination tactics in America is unacceptable and myself am in part refusing to get vaccinated in protest to that. If/when I get vaccinated (when J&J gets out of emergency use most likely) I will do so anonymously for said protest.

@D00B @Eris

I don't know much about the J&J product. How difficult do you believe it would be to create a J&J vaccine with a nasal spray delivery mechanism & mix with the ingredients from the RADVAC?

@djatropine444 Would likely be doable. It acts much like a virus but with specially coded RNA.