Why is it taking so long for the Jury to rule on #KyleRittenhouse Seems a clear cut case of innocence to me. I cant imagine how any other verdict is even a thought given the circumstances (which are largely agreed upon by both sides).

@freemo I'm not entirely proud of it but I've remained largely ignorant on the case and ignored all the memes. However, I am extremely proud that I got called a lieing foreign troll on "other" social media when I corrected someone's assumption that the prosecution can successfully appeal if he's found not guilty.

@b6hydra watching the video of the events mostly tells you all you need to know. The dude was running from people trying to kill him screaming "friendly friendly friendly" and only shot once he was knocked to the ground, cornered, and people starting attacking him (including at one point having a gun held to his head).

@b6hydra can't they? I'm not in Wisconsin, but here the prosecution has recourse to the appeals process, same as the defendant - the prosecutors can't appeal the jury's verdict, but they can claim the judge should have allowed certain evidence, instructed the jury differently, and so on. If they win their appeal the appellate court can order a retrial.

@freemo

@sidekick "can't they?" ... can't they what?

@b6hydra

@freemo

> I corrected someone's assumption that *the prosecution can successfully appeal* if he's found not guilty.

@b6hydra

@sidekick
What you're talking about is a mistrial, not an appeal. A mistrial can generally occur in two ways. First, there's a hung jury, which is still a possibility here. The second is significant misconduct or errors that make the possibility of a fair trial impossible. It is possible for a mistrial to be declared after the fact but it's rare. Typically if either side thought the process was unfair they make make their motions at that time, rather than gamble on the jury.
@freemo

@sidekick
The prosecution can appeal individual decision made by the judge while the trial is ongoing, however the time for that has passed.
@freemo

@b6hydra

guilty verdicts can be appealed after a trial and persued in a higher court. I do not think an innocent verdict can be however due to double jeopardy rules.

@sidekick

@freemo @b6hydra It looks like the circumstances in which the state can appeal are specified in Wisconsin Code 974.05.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/974/05

@sidekick

Is there a particular part of the statues you feel are relevant here?

@b6hydra

@freemo
I'm not seeing anything special that would allow the prosecution to appeal the verdict. They can appeal judgments as well as the sentence, but cannot retry someone on a whim. The statute specifically says

> if the appeal would not be prohibited by constitutional protections against double jeopardy
@sidekick

@b6hydra

There is nothing i can see that would allow the prosecution to appeal an innocent verdict either. There **is** however some very clear cases where the defense could appeal a guilty verdict (and even the judge already admitted this is possible)

@sidekick

@b6hydra

Right. But they can say, "Your Honor, the trial judge made such egregious errors of law when <instructing the jurors>/<ruling on evidence admissibility>/<empaneling the jury>/... that the defendant stood negligible chance of conviction and was never in real jeopardy to begin with. The public interest in justice demands that your Honor order a retrial in which the errors are corrected."

@freemo

My guess is that the likeliest basis the prosecution would choose is (1)(d)2, maybe (1)(a).

@sidekick

I think you are missing the important part.. a defendant can appeal a guilty verdict but the prosecution can **never** appeal a innocent verdict.

So no the prosecution can not say that at all to make an appeal, only the defense could.

@b6hydra

@freemo @b6hydra the entirety of 974.05 is about the state (i.e. prosecution) appealing, not the defendant.

@sidekick

Yes it is, a state isnt always the prosecution, it can also be the defense. A state can appeal when it is the defense and found guilty. It can not appeal when it is the prosecution and the verdict is innocent.

Again appeals can only be against a guilty verdict, never against an innocent one. This is true regardless of what side the state is in the hearing.

@b6hydra

@sidekick

Your error is basically in the assumption that state is synonymous with prosecution.. it is not. If I sue the state I am the prosecution, state is the defendant.

@b6hydra