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Why is it taking so long for the Jury to rule on #KyleRittenhouse Seems a clear cut case of innocence to me. I cant imagine how any other verdict is even a thought given the circumstances (which are largely agreed upon by both sides).
@freemo I'm not entirely proud of it but I've remained largely ignorant on the case and ignored all the memes. However, I am extremely proud that I got called a lieing foreign troll on "other" social media when I corrected someone's assumption that the prosecution can successfully appeal if he's found not guilty.
@freemo
@sidekick
What you're talking about is a mistrial, not an appeal. A mistrial can generally occur in two ways. First, there's a hung jury, which is still a possibility here. The second is significant misconduct or errors that make the possibility of a fair trial impossible. It is possible for a mistrial to be declared after the fact but it's rare. Typically if either side thought the process was unfair they make make their motions at that time, rather than gamble on the jury.
@freemo
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/974/05
@freemo
I'm not seeing anything special that would allow the prosecution to appeal the verdict. They can appeal judgments as well as the sentence, but cannot retry someone on a whim. The statute specifically says
> if the appeal would not be prohibited by constitutional protections against double jeopardy
@sidekick
Right. But they can say, "Your Honor, the trial judge made such egregious errors of law when <instructing the jurors>/<ruling on evidence admissibility>/<empaneling the jury>/... that the defendant stood negligible chance of conviction and was never in real jeopardy to begin with. The public interest in justice demands that your Honor order a retrial in which the errors are corrected."
@freemo
My guess is that the likeliest basis the prosecution would choose is (1)(d)2, maybe (1)(a).
Yes it is, a state isnt always the prosecution, it can also be the defense. A state can appeal when it is the defense and found guilty. It can not appeal when it is the prosecution and the verdict is innocent.
Again appeals can only be against a guilty verdict, never against an innocent one. This is true regardless of what side the state is in the hearing.
@b6hydra
This is a direct quote from the wisconsin DOJ clearly stating that the state can not appeal a not guilty verdict (which is unconstitutional in every state btw):
Appeals by the state after certain circuit court judgments (such as not guilty) are
limited by the United States Constitution. The 5th Amendment's “double jeopardy”
clause protects against multiple prosecutions for the same offense. Therefore, if the defendant is acquitted, the state cannot appeal.
@sidekick
To address your question about jury instruction, yes that could be reason for a mistrial. If the prosecution makes that claim the judge can reject it. Then the prosecution can appeal that individual decision on that individual matter. It sounds like they already made a similar claim before and the judge didn't do anything with it, just put it in his drawer to rot, which means there's no decision to appeal.
@freemo
the tiral 
- kyle went to another state to be a hero, shot people including jews because he's a nazi and a murderer and nobody is allowed to have a gun unless you're a victim and he should have just been beaten up
- kyle was invited to defend property at risk, helped clean up gang signs and did medic'ing, got in to a fight, tried to run and ended up having to shoot people
* yes social media tried to argue he was an anti-semite just because one of the 'victims' had some jewish dna, this argument was folded and didn't make it to court IIRC and the ADL screened his accounts and disavowed any claims of antisemitism
* closing rebuttal literally had a prosecutor say "people get beat up sometimes" clearly arguing the state expected kyle to submit to assault or try to melee someone twice his age
the tiral :blobcathammer:
re: the tiral
the interframe as i call it is they ran one of those optical flow enhancers to compute a frame between frames and then argued that for this single 1/48th of a second he pointed his gun at someone (despite the image suggesting the gun changed arms, he was supposedly pointing the gun with the wrong handedness according to 1/48th of a second a computer imagined between two grainy photos) then the prosecution argued that "guns do not have handedness."
i often plan on threatening people for imperceptible amounts of time while holding the gun so it will eject brass in my face
re: the tiral :blobcathammer:
indeed. But it should be no surprise that the core issue here is "was this self-defense".. i mean did we really need the jury to ask for those papers to glean that?
LOL yea thats kinda the only way i could see the prosecution getting a win, arguing that a gun is somehow excessive force when a mob is trying to murder you.... lets hope thats not where it winds up.
always funny how police walk on stuff like this by just saying "i got skerd" and a civilian does it and it's like
well he didn't have state training in how to be scared, so he shouldn't have been!
The reason is simple. Kyle took a picture with some proud boys and made the OK sign. Therefore that means he is loved by conservatives, hated by liberals. The facts of the case became irrelevant at that moment.
much schadenfreude.
I can feel twitter trying to ban you from beyond the grave at the mention of this comment....
> Two jurors holding decision up, outright citing backlash, per US Marshal in Kenosha - Jack P
> More: Worried about media leaking their names, what will happen to their families, jobs, etc - Jack P
They're never going to be sated... giving in is always the losing option.
> @GeorgePapa19 Breaking: jurors are being threatened
Yeah, it's starting might go for mistrial.
@b6hydra watching the video of the events mostly tells you all you need to know. The dude was running from people trying to kill him screaming "friendly friendly friendly" and only shot once he was knocked to the ground, cornered, and people starting attacking him (including at one point having a gun held to his head).