Taz @taz
Here's an idea. Instead of virtue signalling, celebrities like Rainn Wilson could, you know, actually reduce their own horrifically huge #CarbonFootprint if they really care about #ClimateChange or think there is a #ClimateEmergency

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/rainn-wilson-changes-name-rainnfall-heat-wave-extreme-winter-wilson-raise-climate-change-awareness

Rainn Wilson changes name to Rainnfall Heat Wave Extreme Winter Wilson to raise climate change awareness
"The Office" star Rainn Wilson is changing his name on social media to bring awareness to the melting Arctic. The actor has been a longtime climate activist.

www.foxnews.com
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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@taz I agree the name change thing is dumb, but I don't think *anyone* changing their own footprint is gonna solve this, so that's also really just virtue signaling as well.

Collective controls are really the only way forward.

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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

I think the two most important things one can do for the climate are:

1. Drive an electric car (when you absolutely must drive).

2. Practice abstinence.

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Taz @taz
@Pat @LouisIngenthron

Yeah, because it's not like most electricity comes from fossil fuels, right?

🤔

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Pat @Pat
@taz

Maybe. It depends. But even in the extreme, where all of it was produced with gas/oil, an electric car is still much more efficient than a putt-putt car.

Also, going forward, more and more electricity will come from renewable sources.

@LouisIngenthron

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Taz @taz
@Pat @LouisIngenthron

Renewable technology has a long way to go. It will get there but it's going to be a while yet.

When you take into account the ecological impact of creating and later disposing of the batteries in EVs, they don't fare much, if any, better than the current internal combustion engines in cars today. That's without even beginning to take into account the batteries used to store renewable energy for later use.

Besides, you don't really own that electric car. It is permanently tethered to the home planet and they can shut it down or lock you out remotely.

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Pat @Pat
@taz @LouisIngenthron

Did you take this into account?

(image: Marine Photobank, cc-by-sa-2.0, mediawiki Commons)

a bird, maybe a cormorant, covered in oil in the Black Sea.
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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@Pat @taz Until the power grid is no longer powered by fossil fuels, EVs contribute to that every bit as much as standard vehicles.

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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

>"Until the power grid is no longer powered by fossil fuels, EVs contribute to that every bit as much as standard vehicles."

Actually, they don't. I get 4-5 mi/kWh. Work it out -- it's just fraction of CO2 footprint of a typical putt-putt car.

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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@Pat @taz 0.08 gallons of petroleum per kWh. At 4 miles per kWh, you're at about 50 miles to the gallon. Which is directly comparable to pretty much every hybrid available, and not that much worse than the traditional economy vehicles.
Now, if you get solar panels installed on your house to charge your EV, that's *actually* doing something. But the sad part is, it still isn't enough, because the earth is really really big and our individual choices don't make a bit of difference. The change has to come from the top and apply collectively.

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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

EPA gasoline gallon equivalent is 33.7 kWh / gallon. (http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/)

At 4.5 mi/kWh, that's 151.65 miles per gallon.

Fuel Economy | US EPA
Information on fuel economy labeling, history and trends of fuel economy, testing and data, and information on how federal agencies work together on the issue of…

www.epa.gov
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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@Pat @taz

Your link doesn't lead to a page with any statistics.

This one, however, has it at 12.69 kWh/gallon for petroleum liquids.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=667

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
www.eia.gov
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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

That eia number is not for cars, it's just energy. Cars mostly turn the energy from gas into heat, not miles. The EPA number is 33.7 kWh/gal, which accounts for the inefficiency of putt-putt cars.

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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@Pat @taz You seem to have lost the thread.

We're talking about how much petroleum *power plants* use to power your car. They burn the gas just like my car does.

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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

>"We're talking about how much petroleum *power plants* use to power your car. They burn the gas just like my car does."

First, a lot of the power doesn't even come from oil/gas, it nukes, wind, solar and bunch of other sources, depending on where your electricity comes from.
Second, they "...burn the gas just like my car does." They don't burn gasoline, they burn natural gas usually, and they don't use inefficient pistons, they use turbines to power the generators. It's not the same at all -- it's much more efficient than burning fuel in a putt-putt car.

And if what you say is case, why does it cost so much less money to power an electric car? If the power plants have to pay for the fuel, why is it so much less to use electricity? Ans: Because they are not wasting all that fuel like a putt-putt car does.

Plus now solar is much less than other sources, so the market will switch over quick enough.

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Taz @taz
@Pat @LouisIngenthron

BTW, if you live in CA where the cost of electricity is second highest in the country. Your $3 only buys you a little over 11 miles of range making it almost exactly on par with $7 per gallon gasoline.

EVs are the future, maybe. But they aren't the nirvana you wish them to be.

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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@taz @Pat And yet California wants to completely phase out combustion engines to get more EVs on their overloaded and overpriced grid 🤦‍♂️
They really are living in a different world over there.
(Not that my home state of Florida is much different in that respect)

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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

@LouisIngenthron @taz

>"EVs are the future, maybe. But they aren't the nirvana you wish them to be."

>"Eventually, EVs will be significantly better.

But we're nowhere close to that yet."

I'm there already, for years now. I've been driving my electric for years now and it's just great:

- it's pennies/kWh instead of $4.00/gal
- Virtually no maintenance
- Very quiet
- Better performance (high torque)
- I don't have to stop at a gas station to fill it, I just plug it in at night like a cell phone
- I don't get smelly gas all over my hands and clothes
- I don't have to breathe in those smelly fumes at the gas station
- I don't start it up or warm it up, it just goes
- Don't breathe in that smelly exhaust

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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@Pat @taz It doesn't matter "where you are" when our energy grid is still powered by fossil fuels.

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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

It matters.

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Louis Ingenthron
@LouisIngenthron
Follow
@Pat @taz To some folks' egos, sure. It does not, however, matter to the environment. Not yet.

November 12, 2022, 5:54 PM · · 1 · 0 · 0 · Open in web
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Pat @Pat
@LouisIngenthron @taz

Facts are facts. Electric cars use less energy.

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Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron
@Pat @taz Only when you ignore manufacturing and disposal costs.

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Taz @taz
@LouisIngenthron @Pat

Just wait until they get taxed per mile because they aren't paying gasoline taxes.

I have my popcorn ready.

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Pat @Pat
@taz @LouisIngenthron

New rules, huh?

Here's a new rule... all you dead-enders who think putt-putt cars are so great, everyone who thinks electric cars are no good, you guys have to drive your putt-putt cars from now on and can never drive electric cars, while everyone else joins the 21st century.

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Pat @Pat
@taz @LouisIngenthron

Speaking of taxes, how about we send a tax bill to the oil industry for this:

photo showing burning vehicles, destruction from the Iraq war.
(public domain image from mediawiki commons)
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Taz @taz
@Pat @LouisIngenthron

Who should get this bill?

https://insideevs.com/news/550960/tesla-modely-charging-fire-pennsylvania/

Charging Tesla Destroyed By Fire Which Spread To Owner’s House
The fire reportedly started in the rear of the vehicle, which was burned beyond repair, but luckily the property damage is minimal and nobody was hurt.

insideevs.com
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Pat @Pat
@taz @LouisIngenthron

>"Who should get this bill?"

The oil industry should pay the bill for all of the oil wars. Those wars were fought on behalf of the oil industry, so they should pay the bill.

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Taz @taz
@Pat @LouisIngenthron

Rules? Huh?

You seem pretty thirsty for someone who claims to be comfortable in her choice of transportation.

BTW, I don't believe your $3 "fill up" claim. The math just doesn't add up unless you recharge your car far more often than you should. In which case you are severely reducing the useful life of the battery pack in your car.

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Pat @Pat
@taz @LouisIngenthron

https://qoto.org/@Pat/108846935942473598

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Taz @taz
@Pat @LouisIngenthron

Yeah, you've gone off the deep end.

I'm out. I'm muting this thread.