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Well my tweet calling out joinmastodon is at 122 retoots... I wonder at what point will be enough for them to care....
I agree, we do need to talk, and I've been trying to. But he has refused and has been dead silent to not just me but the multiple dozens of people who have reached out to him asking him to have a conversation he refuses to have.
You are right it should be fair and transparent.. but nope, just a silent removal.. I even told him if he had any issues I'd be happy to address it. I even went out of my way to update our ToC to be a bit better and help alleviate his concerns...
Sadly he has refused to hold a conversation at all. Since he cares more about "optics" than doing whats right he made it clear a public backlash is the only thing he would listen to.
Well, something doesn't make sense here. Qoto has been around awhile and has been on the directory all this time and has complied with all the requirements to be on the directory and continues to comply. Are you saying he just suddenly, without any notice at all, just removed qoto from the directory?
Can you post verbatim all comms between the two of you here?
It is possible that there is some malicious actor, man-in-middle, who is corrupting comms between you guys?
The instigating factor is that someone linked me a website that listed instances that blocked us. I went through tthe list by hand, read about pages, and any instance that posted an email and welcomed others to contact them to discuss administrative concerns I did. I sent an email that amounted to "Hey saw we were blocked, are there any problems I can address"... It turns out without my knowledge the website happened to have its code written by someone from kiwifarms. In his reply he said this was "bad optics". That is the only thing that "changed"
He also citted the fact that we federate with all servers, which as you know is something we do specifically for the protection of the lives of our LGBTQ members as they use it to monitor bad actors for doxxing and disseminate that throughout their communities.
But this second point is nonsense because it has been the case since our founding.
With his permission I'd be happy to send you the actual text of the email but since he is unresponsive to any attempts at having a conversation I cant actually get his permission to do so.
>"With his permission I'd be happy to send you the actual text of the email but since he is unresponsive to any attempts at having a conversation I cant actually get his permission to do so."
This is why modern societies have due process clauses in their laws, and the process is public and transparent. Who knows what info he is being fed from various sources, tainting his perspective and decision-making process.
I just re-read the "covenant" for servers listed in the directory, and federating policy isn't in there. Qoto complies with all of the provisions of the covenant.
This is weird.
It makes no sense to run your own Mastodon because of all the freedoms and control it provides and then allow yourself to be dependent on some website controlled by someone else.
This mistake won’t be their last. If you have 10K to spend, spend it on an alternative to joinmastodon.
@niels I have enough money for both. Problem is there already are alternatives, but the "main" one will always be the official one
@freemo @niels Who cares about "official", when there's a *better* one? Should include instances backed by other software anyway. More like jointhefediverse.
We were never listed on the official one, and my account has been blocked on mastodon.social for years now, with them refusing to tell me why ever since (or even reply to any of my or other people's requests about it). It's normal behavior from them.
It isnt about indefinate or fast growth.. Its more about moderate growth that offsets user decay. They pulled this before when we were new and the server dwindled to a halt after some time. Being on the directory only gets us enough users to grow moderately and offset user decay, it doesnt provide a huge influx.
@freemo @niels So it's about the fear of your 10K active users being so inactive in a few weeks that there aren't even 50 left posting interesting things? Seems like that fear could be resolved in other, less stressful and more productive ways than engaging in public drama with Garg then.
Stoicism can be a great guide for a situation like this...
@freemo @niels It isn't moot considering everything that was said. I hear you. However, if you could lose the fear of "grinding to a halt", and free yourself from what you currently claim is a dependence on Garg's website, wouldn't that be better than asking a BDFL for favors? Wouldn't you make their website more important again by re-adding yours? Would a transition take less work after investing energy in a public fight with them?
@freemo I never said they are. This convo is in reply to you having posted about this for a few days already, and then escalated it on birdsite, which is basically negative advertising for the fediverse as a whole, to exactly the new users that you want to have signing up. And then you even said maybe you should drop $10K on letting that drama "explode".
That's why I first replied and tried to find out why this is so important to you, and to suggest that maybe it shouldn't be *that* important.
@raucao I dont care about advertising for or against the fediverse.. I care about exposing the truth.. if gargrons actions being known hurts the fediverse that is unfortunate. Hopefully he decides to engage in a discussion before it gets that far.
@freemo I think you need to consider is that Garg's actions are mostly irrelevant to what *you* post or do. You still say this is all someone else's fault, and it would end if *they* just acted. But you cannot control *their* actions, but only *your own actions and reactions*.
My suggestion that stoicism is helpful here is not a random side comment. It is the essence of my constructive advice, from admin to admin (who both have been banned by them).
@raucao I am not laying fault, i dont think fault is a useful concept. I know if a wrong doing happens I want knowledge of that to spread.
@freemo
I think you guys need to talk, rather than escalate. At least try to find out why he hasn't responded. I'm sure he's overwhelmed like most admins at this point due the influx from the birdsite.
Also, the directory is big deal, very visible. I think the process for removal should be fair and transparent -- notice; informed of the accusations; opportunity to respond and confront witnesses -- you know, a fair and public trial just how most civil societies operate.
From what you've said about the situation so far, it doesn't sound like the same guy who created Mastodon. More investigation is in order in here, I think.
@Gargron