@freemo According to qoto.org/about/more says is against laws and one would be banned because of it.

Does this mean that a expressing their religious belief about man-to-man intercourse is a hate speech? According to this is a shameful deed and according to there is death penalty for both parties having such an intercourse.

@farooqkz @freemo
What is your real purpose in asking this question?

Surely you don’t need to ask if advocating killing people is hate speech.

A more interesting question is whether this is hate speech against Muslims.

Consider this view is far from universal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_

Consider that Leviticus 20:13, in at least the King James translation, calls for the same thing.

I can’t speak to the Jewish view here, but Christians view the Old Testament to have been supplanted by a less-harsh message of the New Testament.

(Before making assumptions about the Jewish view of Leviticus, keep in mind that the King James translation contains 2 references to unicorns—down from Tyndale’s 4).

Are you trying to incite hatred of Muslims from the LGBTQ community?

I don’t think that’s your intent, but I do think you need to reflect on why you would present the religion as a threat.

Is defaming a religion a ban-worthy act? I don’t know. I’m new here.

But I don’t approve of it.

@BobKerns @freemo @tonic

There are many acts which are considered a crime(a sin which has a punishment) in my religion and the punishment of many of these crimes is death.

Regarding "Advocating killing people", this is too general. In my religion I'm must kill someone who is aware and is trying to kill me and that I don't have any other way of defending myself(e.g. in a war).

Also the punishment for intentional murder is also death. And so is punishment for two who had a man-to-man sexual intercourse. Given that these hadiths are "correct". Under which conditions? I don't know.

Now if I narrate such a hadith and tell the others that it's correct and that's my belief, is this considered a hate speech?

The reason I'm asking about this, is my future actions. As I am a user of this instance, I must know its rules well so that I won't post something which is against the rules.

The reason this discussion is public is that it might benefit the others as well.

@farooqkz

Lots of Muslims believe that love is love, and they don't hate people for who they are.

Maybe you should consider changing your religious beliefs. Have you considered that?

@BobKerns @freemo @tonic

@Pat

The overwhjelming majority of Muslimns I know from around the world would never want to force their beliefs on others. They themselves would never engage in homosexuality as they do view it as against their personal morality but would never dream of imposing that on others.

So yea, the excuse of "this is my religion" doesnt cut it, because he choose that particular hateful interpritation, the religion didnt "force" it upon him.

@farooqkz @BobKerns @tonic

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

According to hadiths, Muslims must implement punishments as much as they can. Which are for the good of society and possibly the person punishment is given to. And this isn't a personal belief, it is a religious belief. e.g. I don't have this idea, my religion has.

Regarding punishments, some are mentioned in Quran, some other in Hadiths and some other in both. For example, sexual intercourse out of marriage is illegal according to Quran and the punishment is 100 lashes in the public which must be done by an authority(government?). You can see the beginning of the 24th Surah.

Hand of thieves must be cut off according to 5:38.

And regarding anal sex between two men, the punishment is death according to the hadiths I've mentioned earlier.

P.S.: Opinion of Muslims is not relevant. For Islam you must look into Quran and Hadiths.

@farooqkz

No it is a personal beleif.. you choose to pick the interpritation you just described, other Muslims dont, period. So yes its a personal belief that you choose to tell yourself it isnt, nothing more nothing less. all religious beleifs are personal beliefs.

@Pat @BobKerns @tonic

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

You might be right about that religious belief is also personal belief. But when Hadiths obviously say there is death penalty, I am trying to deceive myself if I believe otherwise. There is a proverb in Arabic "This is more obvious than the sun". If I am a believer in Muhammad, what other interpretation could I have when he says if they did so, do so.

@farooqkz

Its only obvious to you it is hardly obvious that it is thr one and only jnterpritation to the resr of the world.

@Pat @BobKerns @tonic

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

I don't like to discuss this further. If anyone is interested they can read Quran and Hadiths which are both available online.

@freemo

With respect, I suggest you be more careful about using words like "monster", "idiot", "extremist", etc. If you call someone a monster for their personal or religious belief, you will probably make them more persistent. If you think something is wrong, come with evidence and act mega nice. And I also recommend first studying a Book(Quran or not) for a relatively reasonable period and then discuss what it talks about.

@farooqkz

I have read the Quran about a dozen times at this point, similar to many of the other common holy books of other religions. I think I've "studied" it more than enough to have an opinion.

As for what I refer to an idea, it is not motivated by what will manipulate people the most to agree with me. I say my opinions and I voice them honestly.

@Pat @BobKerns @tonic

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

I'm surprised you've studied Quran a dozen times. How old are you if I may ask?

@farooqkz

40 and religion is a hobby of mine. I've read most holy texts of Islam, Jeudaism, and Christianity, as well as a few less known religions. I feel it is important to study religions and that religion holds a lot of wisdom.

@Pat @BobKerns @tonic

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

Hmm I'm 22 and I study Quran since I've learned which is from about 7-8 years ago. And I haven't studied even a 1/5 times, yet.

I think our scales are different then :/

@farooqkz I think thats a bit of a cop out.. WE have both read it, we both understand it. Scalres are irrelevant at this point.

@freemo no I have read just a small part of Quran. Not enough to have a unified view. So in discussions like this I present my understanding which have been formed by reading his small portion. I think this is something else which slipped through my mind.

@farooqkz Well if you havent read the whole thing that might limit you a bit.. But i think our discussion is generic enough that it might not matter all that much.

@freemo okay so I ask you: Quran commands Muslims to fight and kill unbelievers. Can you explain this to me? Must I kill my atheist friend?

@farooqkz The Quran cant command you to do anything. It is a book. Only your interpritation of the book will "command" you to do anything. A book has no meaning until it is interprited.

@otso @freemo my point is that God's command must be self-explaining and must not have any need to explanation or interpretation. If I add an explanation, that is my word and not God's. As an additional note, Hadith is also considered God's commandment. As a conclusion of this, what Mullahs or Imams or whoever say are not like God's word.

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@farooqkz

There is **always** interpritation...thats how reading anything works.. you read the words, interprit the meaning. Books dont have brains, they cant interprit themselves.

You are just using it as a cop-out.. you are claiming your interpritation is **the** interpritation, as if there was no element of you in that process.. but thats not hte case.. you are the one who reads the words and takes it to mean a specific thing, you cant avoid it.

@otso

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@farooqkz

I just gave your seven interpretations to your statement of "you will kill infedels" for examples... not one of them is some version that "lacks" interpretations, that statement doesnt even make sense.

@otso

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