Seems pretty clear to me, want to place limits on it, get support for a new amendment.

#2A

@freemo right on. And before someone posts the "well regulated militia" argument, the militia at that time was the able-bodied male population. The 2a is definitely about the general public being armed and trained to repel either invasion or tyranny.

If the Federal government wanted to take the 2a seriously, they should be expanding the Civilian Marksmanship Program and offering free rifle lessons in high school.

@mike805 The well regulated militia is clearly an exemplary clause and not a qualifying clause

@freemo also "the people"in the 2a definitely refers to the actual human beings living in this territory. So that quashes any "collective right" claim.

The use of "the people" to refer to some theoretical group right is really a Marxist invention. The founders said what they meant and meant what they said.

@mike805 @freemo the founders were not gods. Their conception of guns, militia, armies, people (who they thought mattered), rights (for those they throughout mattered) bear absolutely no relevance today. All of those have changed dramatically since then.

I might have a suggestion that could satisfy most of the people here:

Problem: The perpetrators in mass shootings are mainly “loners” with some unresolved issues.

Solution: To be able to legally buy a gun you need to be a member in good standing and have a permit from a “well-regulated militia” (a.k.a. a gun club or society).

So the responsibility for the security of a society is neither on the individual nor on the government, but on the society itself.

What do you think? Is everybody happy? You have your guns (as many as you wish) and the rest of us are a little bit less concerned we’ll get shot at our place of work, learning, or praying.

@lmrocha @mike805 @freemo

@pj @lmrocha @mike805 @freemo That's actually terrifying. You have to join a militia with a roster that the government approves of, and if ever your club (the people you associate with) is deemed by the state to be hostile to the state you are stripped of your rights.

@thatguyoverthere

Why is it more terrifying than being all by yourself? Just make sure your club is not hostile to the government.😀

If the government thinks you, or any bunch you are currently associated with, are hostile, you will be stripped of your rights anyway, club or not club. At least in a club that was previously sanctioned by that same government, you have some kind of protection.

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

If it helps, think of it as a “gun owners’ fediverse” where each club is an “instance” and the NRA, instead of an association of individuals, is a federation of all the gun clubs of America.
Then, instead of taking care primarily of just the needs of their wealthy donors (gun manufacturers), they may start also thinking about the needs of all of their other members and their local societies.

@pj

The idea is great except where its required.. it would be like saying if you want access to the internet you need a fediverse instance you join and that gives you permission to get on the internet.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo

How don’t you see it is the same situation?

I can get access to the Internet from a library or walk onto a shooting range and shoot a few rounds under supervision, but if I want to buy a gun and take it home where there is a risk of harming other people, I have to get an IP subscription and join some of the social platforms where I can “shoot” nonsense like this.😀
@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@pj @freemo @mike805 @lmrocha you literally never HAVE to join any platforms to browse the web. You can run your own server (blog, fedi, game, whatever) and others can access it. If you just want to build something for a local community you could even skip the internet altogether and run a wide area network on your own if you have the resources completely separate from the internet.

@pj @freemo @lmrocha @mike805 you also don't have to provide fedi admins with a state approved ID to join. Some don't even care if the email is valid (big ups IMO). Some people on the internet need privacy just like some people in real life need to have the ability to defend themselves. Not everyone has a strong need for either of these things at all times, but we all should have access to them if ever we do.