Obviously what zack said. The sale of new auto weapons have been illegal in the usa for a very long time. You can only get access to very old antique autoweapons and there are very few of them at all.
It does discredit you when you say stuff like that.
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Yes, it must be impossible. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16412910/automatic-guns-las-vegas-shooting
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo And yet, US has hundreds of mass shootings a year, and France decidedly does not, go figure.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo I'm not, @freemo had mentioned it.
Anyway, what about tha murder rate? Is it the lack of old architecture? Maybe it's the freedom? I'm sure there must be reasons other than very easy and uncontrolled access to something that's specifically designed to kill people.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo And you go on and on about things that aren't US-specific. What is different about the US that causes you guys to murder each other much more frequently than in, say, Spain or UK?
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo CDC estimates that gang violence was responsible for 10% of overall homicides in 2020. So I think you need another excuse.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo Where are those stats then? You claim the reasons are different, and you keep moving the goalpost on that (so it's not gang violence after all?)
I'm curious to know what particular piece of data makes you so sure it's not the easy access to guns that's causing all those extra murders to happen.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo And no, I'm not skipping around, or moving the goalpost. I'm talking about the reasons for US having so many more murders than any other rich country.
I do appreciate that US has many structural problems that may cause people to turn to violence, from prolific lack of access to basic necessities of life like health care and housing, to an incredibly harmful mass incarceration system you've built, to a lack of support for getting out of poverty that plagues vast swaths of US. I get that. And that's quite unusual for a rich country and I'm sure contributes to the problem. And if you had like 50% or even 100% more murders, I could buy that argument. But the disparity is much, much larger.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo And what is the source for this assertion?
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo I still don't see any data or links.
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Which one are you questioning? Murder rates, number of gang-related homicides, Swiss gun laws?
I didnt say i was questioning anything... but you two are both disagreeing with eachother and neither of you have provided any sort of high quality data to make either case.
So im just pointing out its kinda odd for you to complain he isnt providing data when you really havent done that yourself either.
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper So my data is unspecifically invalid, gotcha.
No it is specifically.invalid and commented multiple times in the thread why every time you attempted to share invalid data
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Yeah, this kind of goes as expected :) Gun nuts ask for data, then they don't like the data, they have no data, and they keep believing. Well, I hope more people come to their senses, their democratic voice gets heard, and you fix your glaring problem so that gun nuts around here don't point to US and claim you're doing great despite the guns.
Sorry but you dont win science debates by seeing who can post the most intellectually dishonest links to data... not how honest scientific inquery works. The fact you think it does shows you are probably the only "nut" here. The fact you felt the need to make personally attacks to everyone who disagrees with you really proves it though
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Sure, that's the reason you haven't provided any data. That's the reason our conversation led nowhere. Well, good luck with your safety guns.
What assertion have I made havent provided data for? I have posted the data for pretty much all my assertions in the past, at least if/when someone brought it up.
I sure have, probably 50 times over the years, and several times this month alone (as its been a significant topic)... I've addressed both why the data and science we have is lacking (on either side of the discussion).. why its bad approach to analysis and Data for whats out there, and likewise provided data nad charts from the data we have access to...
So yes I've shared the data to that, quite often and recently.. I guess what you meant to say is you never saw or asked me for data and now are upset because I called **you** out for not having data so now your diverting the spotlight and trying to make it sound like I refuse to provide data when I actually did? Umm ok, not a good look, but ok. But yea if you want to download the data with me and do the analysis I'll be happy to go through it with you step by step. Its on my timeline but we can process the data together if you'd like as well.
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Still the same :D No, I'm not changing the subject, I'm literally answering your question. And sure, let's say I also provided my data and sources elsewhere, so we can be done.
Lol no my dats was actually provided and you only asked for it once **you** were called out for not providing any.. sorry buddy but doesnt work that way. Youve provided no data, you dont get to act superior by imagining you did and then calling out others who actually did provide data and pretending they didnt.
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Whatever I could provide you'll just say that I'm wrong and you don't have to provide any proof because you did before. What would be the point?
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper But sure, here you go, a list of studies linking number of guns to homicide rates. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
Let me guess, it doesn't prove causation, because it's a study.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo The other conclusion being that people started buying guns after all the knife shootings?
@zack @freemo @pies Just (reluctantly) jumping in here to say that the level of gun violence in the United States does have multiple factors affecting it, poverty being one. Hatred and irrational fears being another. The point is, when you have any of those factors in play and you add guns, it’s like adding a match to a powder keg. (The match being the gun). Why would you do that?
I think everyone is in agreement that the violence in the usa is a multitude of factors of which any influence guns have is at best a small fraction. Of course i disagree that addi g guns is like adding a match, mutch the opposite its like untying peoples hands so they can act.
You just changed what we were talking about.. your talking about "gun violence".. not the murder rate... Of **course** banning guns will make **gun** violence go down. We are talking about **all** violence, including acts of knife or other forms of violence that would have been deterred by a gun.
@freemo @MelodyCooper @zack I'm not talking about gun violence but murder rate.
@freemo @MelodyCooper @zack I really don't understand how someone can say with a straight face that guns lower murder rate while living in a country that has an enormous murder rate and loads of guns. Arguing that guns don't boost murder rate is very counterintuitive to me and not in line with the stuff I've read, but it's somewhat plausible. But if guns lower murder rate how many more guns do you need to get your murder rate to a normal level? You guys have more guns than people.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo Do I even have to say it? US ranks nr 14 in the world in reported rape, and the only rich country that's above it is Sweden. Guns don't stop sexual assault from happening. Guns do not make a country safer at all.
How many times do people need to tell you correlation isnt causation before yiu get it?
Because correlation isnt causation. When you analyze the data using causation tests llike granger the pattern becomes clear, which is the correct way to analyze the data.
No simply injecting guns till you reach p doesnt worth, the relationship is clearly going to be nonlinear.
@MelodyCooper @zack @pies
The old "Gun violence is lower in countries where guns are banned" (ignoring guns effect on non-gun violence) is basically the anti-vaxxer tactic of "If you make vaccines illegal we will see less vaccine deaths".. well yea, sure, of course you will, but you will also see non-vaccine related deaths skyrocket...